[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat for Next-Gen RDS PDP WG
Nathalie Peregrine
nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Wed Dec 21 08:44:13 UTC 2016
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Wednesday, 21 December 2016 at 06:00 UTC.
MP3: <http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03ZqpsvgRhF8anYZT-2Fu85DJG3jGxHYOrnyFbboPTVR2-2FUe-2FlZrBDAHYvHfo83vM5J6KcMpY-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzhFSwGPnv2v-2FgoCMIrC8INcSY5ut4-2FG2Sv-2Fw2UdSyBhjgxuuDC0IqItmMVkZ-2F-2Fqkap8JkCN7pJEVVBiAkquSucggbJ2uIUqiVvguBhkWxRkzX-2F0VA9LKRNbr4LR41Por7wp-2BEbzUb3A9oMSSnOo92YKVfjuev2uUiflTwtbZu61uxZRMUkDX4u8FtK-2FzY56x9XhO4jPiQzDFZQfXCgJpjj-2F9oNXNP8MZm9Nh1z3vlXho-2FiqkwDURpcpo6-2FSBgaXOLW7f4-2FQuJFJQNiYh9UvsyA1AO8bsNF3YfjT8yzDnjk3-2F> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-21dec16-en.mp3
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DgMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=MdoIWWmVe8Ie3cR5SwSjiRm4E8EdnUr-CxOvAN1NKTw&s=0ZIjzpmsq1BYAQV6x2b0WZ-cPm1B_4GAUL75kvjK4Fg&e=>
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/45vDAw[community.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_45vDAw&d=DgMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=MdoIWWmVe8Ie3cR5SwSjiRm4E8EdnUr-CxOvAN1NKTw&s=P9hxSXa7YMqtlJfXLA47-Ms5DOgomHvcDbiEQDdq07g&e=>
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Nathalie
———————————————
AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG Wednesday, 21 December 2016
Nathalie Peregrine:Dear All, Welcome to the Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call on Wednesday 21 December 2016 at 06:00 UTC.
Nathalie Peregrine:Meeting page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_i6TDAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=N3bnRtN9WnHh0itusNQju0YLysaYdVOEVJxEpgYnaeo&s=nZ62H1uiSMyRgeIgK05vI3trDIqh3vqsOK9XcgK44Jw&e=
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Good morning... Or something :-)
Ayden Férdeline:Hello to all
Nathalie Peregrine:Welcome all!
Fabricio Vayra:Hello
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All
Greg Aaron:Hi, Chuck. "e" was suggested by Greg Aaron, not Greg Shatan
Greg Aaron:Yes, I wrote that.
Stephanie Perrin:For those of us who did not fill out the poll, can you make the questions accessible so we can input our responses? I tried but once the poll closed I could not find the questions
Lisa Phifer:A PDF version of the poll is posted at the last meeting page - but as Chuck notes, the question and options for response are shown on the screen now
Stephanie Perrin:thanks Lisa
Lisa Phifer:PDF link https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_63151075_Poll-2Don-2DPurpose-2Dfrom-2D13DecCall.pdf&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=N3bnRtN9WnHh0itusNQju0YLysaYdVOEVJxEpgYnaeo&s=yIm8SdJ1IDCSPah_6kcvXeNF8kZZRX-0OAdyEb0I56g&e=
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):as I understand 9% is 2 persons
Lisa Phifer:Maxim yes, just 2
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):one of the issues - the data is protected only until the first person with "bad ideas" accesses it and shares between such persons ...
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):tracking would require adding random seeds and it is not possible - info should be the same for the particular domain
Stephanie Perrin:Can someone please remind me of precisely which data elements we are speaking here?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I am not sure we can prevent sharing data after it was taken from the system
Stephanie Perrin:are we requiring the user/collector of the data to identify/authenticate themselves
Ayden Férdeline:I think we are only talking about the thin WHOIS output
Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie: See the top of the document displayed in the window - definition of thin data given by the Thick WHOIS Report
Ayden Férdeline:so just enough data to identify the registrar, the status of the registration, and the creation and expiration dates of each registration. (I think?)
Lisa Phifer:"A thin registry only stores and manages the information associated with the domain name. This set includes data sufficient to identify the sponsoring registrar, status of the registration, creation and expiration dates for each registration, name server data, the last time the record was updated in its Whois data store, and the URL for the registrar’s Whois service."
Greg Aaron:I'll have to dial in sepeately
Nathalie Peregrine:@ Greg, we can dial out to you if you prefer.
Michele Neylon:Ayden - it's useful data for technical stuff at one level
Michele Neylon:but that's about it
Ayden Férdeline:thanks Michele
Shane Kerr:Working Adobe! A Christmas miracle! ;-)
Greg Aaron:Let me try now.
Michele Neylon:well it's logged anyway
Ayden Férdeline:I think some thin data elements (i.e. nameservers) should be available anonymously, but not all.
Michele Neylon:Ayden - like?
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:sound gone
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we lost adobe audio?
Lisa Phifer:CHuck are you on mute?
Stephanie Perrin:not hearing
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:No sound here
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:okay now!
Ayden Férdeline:I imagine that the nameservers need to be accessible in order for the DNS to function unimpeded, but I fail to see why, say, the registry name or the expiration data of a domain name should be available to anyone for any reason.
Greg Aaron:still not working...trying another route...
Michele Neylon:Ayden - oh come on - the registry for .com is always going to be Verisign :)
Stephanie Perrin:You have to do that anyway.....create privacy policies
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:expiry date why should that be hidden?
Ayden Férdeline:Sorry, I didn’t catch the name of who was just speaking before Lisa, but the sentiments they shared were mine… I would not want there to be records of every website I visit... so I would not support some kind of authentication model which recorded, say, every time someone went to a website, which name servers were retrieved, etc… the ability to use the Internet anonymously or pseudonymously is important.
Ayden Férdeline:@Benny - I really hate to flip the question, but why should it be available to anyone for any reason? Isn't it registrar-registrant contract information?
Shane Kerr:@Ayden - that was me. ;-)
Ayden Férdeline:Thanks Shane :)
Greg Aaron:I'm dialed in
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:@Ayden there are several reasons but for one it is a secure way for the registrant to controll that the registry has renewed the domain, without to have to go to the reseller ogf the reseller of the reseller of the registrar
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:secondly those we fear to misuse it for snapping a domain have access on another level
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:if they used whois they would be blocked
Michele Neylon:well you can't spam based on thin data :)
Michele Neylon:unless you use the force
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):identification of legal status of a particular act of access to the system - is a legal question and can not be resolved by technical means (until we allow computers to make legal decisions )
Lisa Phifer:@Greg - (a) seems closer to (e) than (c)?
Michele Neylon:+1 Chuck - the audio went a bit odd towards the end
Greg Aaron:Hi, Lisa. A, C, and E share some similarities. But A uses "accessible" in a way that requires a gating and determination of hte users intent, and therefore access control. IN contrast, C and E do not.
Lisa Phifer:@Greg (a) and (c) both refer to "names should be accessible for any purpose(s)" so it would seem that if you assumed that meant access control/gating, it would apply to both options. (That wasn't our intent, but trying to sort out what people assumed when choosing those options)
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):sometimes Registries even do not know that the data was misused
Greg Aaron:Lisa: "A contains an "except>"
Greg Aaron:Lisa, no that is not what I assumed.
Lisa Phifer:@greg, what phrasing made you think access control was implied - just "except" or also "expressly permitted" in (b)?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1
Shane Kerr:The "silent majority". :)
Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Shane, great explanation. And let me be clear, I am not looking for an authenticated-only Internet.....I am just wondering where the line needs to be drawn and the relative costs.
Shane Kerr:@Stephanie - sure, understood.
Shane Kerr:Although I forgot to mention that we could outsource the problem to Facebook and require a Facebook login. (I joke!)
Greg Aaron:"A" says the data should be "accessible for any purposes EXCEPT for illegitimate purposes". Anotehr way of saying that is that it should NOT be accessible for illegitimate puposes. So that means you must prohibit illegitimatu purposes. And that means you are keeping people out, and are ensuring that only legit users with good intetnt are getting the data. Thus, you are gating the data, and allowing only certain usres to see it.
Stephanie Perrin:I also don't want to demand something further along on this journey, that will be instantly expanded and misused....and I can provide tons of examples where this is happening already
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we trust bad persons to provide us true info? I am not sure it worth trying
Shane Kerr:@Lisa - spoken like a product owner! ;)
Shane Kerr:(I don't disagree, BTW)
Michele Neylon:I actually disagree with the first
Greg Aaron:Regarding purposes of any field: see the EWG report, pages 129 ff.
Greg Aaron:Correct, Michele, but there's als oa contractual line through the reseller to the registrar.
Greg Aaron:ask noted the RAA.
Greg Aaron:we have an optioanl Reseller field for those registrar swho wish to avail themselves of it. Many choose not to.
Michele Neylon:Greg - who is "we"? :)
Greg Aaron:we being the registration community, to be more precise.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I wonder how the persons (who forgot to whom they paid few years ago for a domain) will use those numbers for paying again?
Michele Neylon:Maxim - ROFL :)
Michele Neylon:so true
Stephanie Perrin:I am confident whoever wants the money will find them
Michele Neylon:we get CC chargebacks because of confusion
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we suggest paying all registrars just to be sure that they do not miss it :) ?
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:I will galdly collect for all domains I don't manage
Lisa Phifer:Collection here refers to being required by policy to populate an RDS/WHOIS record with values for that element
Shane Kerr:Purposes "all"? :-P
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):example of a good purpose : word good in the purpose form ...
Lisa Phifer:@Shane, the domain name identifies the record, regardless of purpose, thus "all"
Shane Kerr:Sure, I get it.
Greg Aaron:what is displayed is a highly trucated verrsion of the original table, and is missing many lines
Rod Rasmussen:The list is NOT comprehensive. :-)
Shane Kerr:Ah, okay.
Lisa Phifer:the data element purposes came from use cases - but the use cases were not comprehensive so there are probably additional purposes not listed
Shane Kerr:Ah, I see the chart in the report. It's more comprehensive. :)
Greg Aaron:the lsited are not just any old purposes. They are legitimate purposes.
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg
Shane Kerr:Certainly a registrar has more information than a registry, even in the "thick registry" case?
Shane Kerr:Knowing the registrar is always (potentially) useful....
Lisa Phifer:nothing from me at this time
Rod Rasmussen:@Greg Aaron - look at the private chat question I sent you (non ICANN related!)
Lisa Phifer:I think we could poll on points of agreement to confirm them (and allow for those not on call to weigh in)
Lisa Phifer:Staff will launch poll within 24 hours but we should leave poll open for responses through the holidays
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Happy holidays everyone
Fabricio Vayra:happy holidazzzzzzz
Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks all!
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:thanks to all...
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):could we extend poll till JAN?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Happy Holidays!
Ayden Férdeline:thanks to all, and wishing you all a wonderful new year.
Shane Kerr:Bye!
Vlad Dinculescu:Thanks all
Lisa Phifer:Happy holidays all
Stephanie Perrin:Thanks and Happy New year
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