[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat for Next-Gen RDS PDP WG
Olévié Kouami
olivierkouami at gmail.com
Wed Dec 21 23:31:38 UTC 2016
Hi !
Thank you for this kind advice dear Ethos.
Warm regards
-Olévié-
2016-12-21 16:44 GMT+00:00 Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com>:
> I encourage those who missed the call to listen to the recording of this
> meeting. I think we made some small but good progress and listening to the
> discussion may make it easier to respond to the poll that will be sent out
> this week.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-
> bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Nathalie Peregrine
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 21, 2016 3:44 AM
> *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Cc:* gnso-secs at icann.org
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat for
> Next-Gen RDS PDP WG
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3
> recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on
> Wednesday, 21 December 2016 at 06:00 UTC.
>
> *MP3:* http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-21dec16-en.mp3
>
> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO
> Master Calendar page:
>
> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DgMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=MdoIWWmVe8Ie3cR5SwSjiRm4E8EdnUr-CxOvAN1NKTw&s=0ZIjzpmsq1BYAQV6x2b0WZ-cPm1B_4GAUL75kvjK4Fg&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
>
>
>
> Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
>
>
>
> Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/45vDAw[community.icann.org]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_45vDAw&d=DgMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=MdoIWWmVe8Ie3cR5SwSjiRm4E8EdnUr-CxOvAN1NKTw&s=P9hxSXa7YMqtlJfXLA47-Ms5DOgomHvcDbiEQDdq07g&e=>
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Nathalie
>
>
>
> ———————————————
>
>
>
> *AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG **Wednesday**, 21 December 2016*
>
>
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Dear All, Welcome to the Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call on
> Wednesday 21 December 2016 at 06:00 UTC.
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Meeting page: https://urldefense.
> proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_i6TDAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=
> FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_
> FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=
> N3bnRtN9WnHh0itusNQju0YLysaYdVOEVJxEpgYnaeo&s=
> nZ62H1uiSMyRgeIgK05vI3trDIqh3vqsOK9XcgK44Jw&e=
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Good morning... Or something :-)
>
> Ayden Férdeline:Hello to all
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Welcome all!
>
> Fabricio Vayra:Hello
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All
>
> Greg Aaron:Hi, Chuck. "e" was suggested by Greg Aaron, not Greg Shatan
>
> Greg Aaron:Yes, I wrote that.
>
> Stephanie Perrin:For those of us who did not fill out the poll, can you
> make the questions accessible so we can input our responses? I tried but
> once the poll closed I could not find the questions
>
> Lisa Phifer:A PDF version of the poll is posted at the last meeting page
> - but as Chuck notes, the question and options for response are shown on
> the screen now
>
> Stephanie Perrin:thanks Lisa
>
> Lisa Phifer:PDF link https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_63151075_
> Poll-2Don-2DPurpose-2Dfrom-2D13DecCall.pdf&d=DgIFaQ&c=
> FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_
> FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=
> N3bnRtN9WnHh0itusNQju0YLysaYdVOEVJxEpgYnaeo&s=yIm8SdJ1IDCSPah_
> 6kcvXeNF8kZZRX-0OAdyEb0I56g&e=
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):as I understand 9% is 2 persons
>
> Lisa Phifer:Maxim yes, just 2
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):one of the issues - the data is protected only
> until the first person with "bad ideas" accesses it and shares between such
> persons ...
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):tracking would require adding random seeds and it
> is not possible - info should be the same for the particular domain
>
> Stephanie Perrin:Can someone please remind me of precisely which data
> elements we are speaking here?
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I am not sure we can prevent sharing data after it
> was taken from the system
>
> Stephanie Perrin:are we requiring the user/collector of the data to
> identify/authenticate themselves
>
> Ayden Férdeline:I think we are only talking about the thin WHOIS output
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie: See the top of the document displayed in the
> window - definition of thin data given by the Thick WHOIS Report
>
> Ayden Férdeline:so just enough data to identify the registrar, the
> status of the registration, and the creation and expiration dates of each
> registration. (I think?)
>
> Lisa Phifer:"A thin registry only stores and manages the information
> associated with the domain name. This set includes data sufficient to
> identify the sponsoring registrar, status of the registration, creation and
> expiration dates for each registration, name server data, the last time the
> record was updated in its Whois data store, and the URL for the registrar’s
> Whois service."
>
> Greg Aaron:I'll have to dial in sepeately
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:@ Greg, we can dial out to you if you prefer.
>
> Michele Neylon:Ayden - it's useful data for technical stuff at one level
>
> Michele Neylon:but that's about it
>
> Ayden Férdeline:thanks Michele
>
> Shane Kerr:Working Adobe! A Christmas miracle! ;-)
>
> Greg Aaron:Let me try now.
>
> Michele Neylon:well it's logged anyway
>
> Ayden Férdeline:I think some thin data elements (i.e. nameservers)
> should be available anonymously, but not all.
>
> Michele Neylon:Ayden - like?
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:sound gone
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we lost adobe audio?
>
> Lisa Phifer:CHuck are you on mute?
>
> Stephanie Perrin:not hearing
>
> Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:No sound here
>
> Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:okay now!
>
> Ayden Férdeline:I imagine that the nameservers need to be accessible in
> order for the DNS to function unimpeded, but I fail to see why, say, the
> registry name or the expiration data of a domain name should be available
> to anyone for any reason.
>
> Greg Aaron:still not working...trying another route...
>
> Michele Neylon:Ayden - oh come on - the registry for .com is always
> going to be Verisign :)
>
> Stephanie Perrin:You have to do that anyway.....create privacy policies
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:expiry date why should that be hidden?
>
> Ayden Férdeline:Sorry, I didn’t catch the name of who was just speaking
> before Lisa, but the sentiments they shared were mine… I would not want
> there to be records of every website I visit... so I would not support some
> kind of authentication model which recorded, say, every time someone went
> to a website, which name servers were retrieved, etc… the ability to use
> the Internet anonymously or pseudonymously is important.
>
> Ayden Férdeline:@Benny - I really hate to flip the question, but why
> should it be available to anyone for any reason? Isn't it
> registrar-registrant contract information?
>
> Shane Kerr:@Ayden - that was me. ;-)
>
> Ayden Férdeline:Thanks Shane :)
>
> Greg Aaron:I'm dialed in
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:@Ayden there are several reasons but for
> one it is a secure way for the registrant to controll that the registry has
> renewed the domain, without to have to go to the reseller ogf the reseller
> of the reseller of the registrar
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:secondly those we fear to misuse it for
> snapping a domain have access on another level
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:if they used whois they would be blocked
>
> Michele Neylon:well you can't spam based on thin data :)
>
> Michele Neylon:unless you use the force
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):identification of legal status of a
> particular act of access to the system - is a legal question and can not
> be resolved by technical means (until we allow computers to make legal
> decisions )
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Greg - (a) seems closer to (e) than (c)?
>
> Michele Neylon:+1 Chuck - the audio went a bit odd towards the end
>
> Greg Aaron:Hi, Lisa. A, C, and E share some similarities. But A uses
> "accessible" in a way that requires a gating and determination of hte users
> intent, and therefore access control. IN contrast, C and E do not.
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Greg (a) and (c) both refer to "names should be accessible
> for any purpose(s)" so it would seem that if you assumed that meant access
> control/gating, it would apply to both options. (That wasn't our intent,
> but trying to sort out what people assumed when choosing those options)
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):sometimes Registries even do not know that the
> data was misused
>
> Greg Aaron:Lisa: "A contains an "except>"
>
> Greg Aaron:Lisa, no that is not what I assumed.
>
> Lisa Phifer:@greg, what phrasing made you think access control was
> implied - just "except" or also "expressly permitted" in (b)?
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1
>
> Shane Kerr:The "silent majority". :)
>
> Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Shane, great explanation. And let me be clear,
> I am not looking for an authenticated-only Internet.....I am just wondering
> where the line needs to be drawn and the relative costs.
>
> Shane Kerr:@Stephanie - sure, understood.
>
> Shane Kerr:Although I forgot to mention that we could outsource the
> problem to Facebook and require a Facebook login. (I joke!)
>
> Greg Aaron:"A" says the data should be "accessible for any purposes
> EXCEPT for illegitimate purposes". Anotehr way of saying that is that it
> should NOT be accessible for illegitimate puposes. So that means you must
> prohibit illegitimatu purposes. And that means you are keeping people out,
> and are ensuring that only legit users with good intetnt are getting the
> data. Thus, you are gating the data, and allowing only certain usres to
> see it.
>
> Stephanie Perrin:I also don't want to demand something further along on
> this journey, that will be instantly expanded and misused....and I can
> provide tons of examples where this is happening already
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we trust bad persons to provide us true info? I
> am not sure it worth trying
>
> Shane Kerr:@Lisa - spoken like a product owner! ;)
>
> Shane Kerr:(I don't disagree, BTW)
>
> Michele Neylon:I actually disagree with the first
>
> Greg Aaron:Regarding purposes of any field: see the EWG report, pages
> 129 ff.
>
> Greg Aaron:Correct, Michele, but there's als oa contractual line through
> the reseller to the registrar.
>
> Greg Aaron:ask noted the RAA.
>
> Greg Aaron:we have an optioanl Reseller field for those registrar swho
> wish to avail themselves of it. Many choose not to.
>
> Michele Neylon:Greg - who is "we"? :)
>
> Greg Aaron:we being the registration community, to be more precise.
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I wonder how the persons (who forgot to whom they
> paid few years ago for a domain) will use those numbers for paying again?
>
> Michele Neylon:Maxim - ROFL :)
>
> Michele Neylon:so true
>
> Stephanie Perrin:I am confident whoever wants the money will find them
>
> Michele Neylon:we get CC chargebacks because of confusion
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we suggest paying all registrars just to be
> sure that they do not miss it :) ?
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:I will galdly collect for all domains I
> don't manage
>
> Lisa Phifer:Collection here refers to being required by policy to
> populate an RDS/WHOIS record with values for that element
>
> Shane Kerr:Purposes "all"? :-P
>
> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):example of a good purpose : word good in the
> purpose form ...
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Shane, the domain name identifies the record, regardless
> of purpose, thus "all"
>
> Shane Kerr:Sure, I get it.
>
> Greg Aaron:what is displayed is a highly trucated verrsion of the
> original table, and is missing many lines
>
> Rod Rasmussen:The list is NOT comprehensive. :-)
>
> Shane Kerr:Ah, okay.
>
> Lisa Phifer:the data element purposes came from use cases - but the use
> cases were not comprehensive so there are probably additional purposes not
> listed
>
> Shane Kerr:Ah, I see the chart in the report. It's more comprehensive. :)
>
> Greg Aaron:the lsited are not just any old purposes. They are
> legitimate purposes.
>
> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg
>
> Shane Kerr:Certainly a registrar has more information than a registry,
> even in the "thick registry" case?
>
> Shane Kerr:Knowing the registrar is always (potentially) useful....
>
> Lisa Phifer:nothing from me at this time
>
> Rod Rasmussen:@Greg Aaron - look at the private chat question I sent
> you (non ICANN related!)
>
> Lisa Phifer:I think we could poll on points of agreement to confirm them
> (and allow for those not on call to weigh in)
>
> Lisa Phifer:Staff will launch poll within 24 hours but we should leave
> poll open for responses through the holidays
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Happy holidays everyone
>
> Fabricio Vayra:happy holidazzzzzzz
>
> Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks all!
>
> Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:thanks to all...
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):could we extend poll till JAN?
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Happy Holidays!
>
> Ayden Férdeline:thanks to all, and wishing you all a wonderful new year.
>
> Shane Kerr:Bye!
>
> Vlad Dinculescu:Thanks all
>
> Lisa Phifer:Happy holidays all
>
> Stephanie Perrin:Thanks and Happy New year
>
>
>
>
>
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>
--
*Olévié Ayaovi Agbenyo KOUAMI*
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