[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

Mon Dec 11 16:17:06 UTC 2017

and just because it's being done doesn't mean it's being done effectively.

do we have any data from the users of these currently-existing gated
systems to get their opinion as to whether it works for them?

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 8:09 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <
michele at blacknight.com> wrote:

> Dick
>
>
>
> We have been thinking about what it means in reality, as we are the ones
> who will have to implement it.
>
>
>
> For now, I can see a situation where a registrar will end up running RDAP
> with ACLs. And there’ll be layers of access with logging etc.,
>
>
>
> It’s already being done by a lot of ccTLDs and by two gTLDs.
>
>
>
> Just because it’s not “simple” doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Michele
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072>
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090>
>
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
> Richard Leaning <rleaning at ripe.net>
> *Date: *Monday 11 December 2017 at 15:00
> *To: *Chuck <consult at cgomes.com>
> *Cc: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Wasn’t sure to add to this thread a start a new one.
>
>
>
> Accreditation and tiered access is something am hearing regularly now when
> discussing a ‘new’ whois. Its was spoken about in corridors and bars at the
> last ICANN meeting and when am walking around Brussels from meeting to
> meeting, conference to conference its always popping up as the thing thats
> going to save us all.
>
>
>
> But has anyone stopped to think about this, what do these small words mean
> in reality. So who is going to decided who should be accredited, ICANN?
> ITU? Interpol? Europol? some brand new organisations? this debate alone
> will take another 5 years on top of the years we are going to spend on this
> WG.
>
>
>
> Just wanted to point out that everyone throws this around without actually
> considering what it means in the real world.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Dick
>
>
>
> Richard Leaning
>
> External Relations
>
> RIPE NCC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 Dec 2017, at 21:45, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Caution to all.  This thread is getting too personal and that is not
> constructive.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *benny at nordreg.se
> *Sent:* Friday, December 8, 2017 9:27 AM
> *To:* allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>
>
>
> About behavior in the discussion in general
>
> Who bullies who...
>
>
>
> I did not mention any particular and it was a comment on a view of the
> above.
>
>
>
> Your assumptions are way of track and  insulting in so many ways. And kind
> of show my point, a comment misused by quoting it out of context making it
> a fact with out context.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 8 Dec 2017, at 18:16, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please clarify: "Sure… your pals are always innocent right?"
>
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2017 12:03 PM, "benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>
> Criminals were did that come from???
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 8 Dec 2017, at 17:22, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>
> >> Lets just agree that we have different viewpoints on this.
>
>
>
> I'm assuming you're referencing the earlier defamation against spamhaus
> that occurred on this list, apparently without the leadership of this list
> flagging it as inappropriate? Or are you accusing someone else of being a
> criminal? Please do be more specific. It's better when the defamation is
> explicit rather than inferred.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:48 AM, benny at nordreg.se <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>
> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>
> Lets just agree that we have different viewpoints on this.
>
>
>
> --
> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>
> Benny Samuelsen
> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>
> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
> IANA-ID: 638
> Phone: +46.42197000
> Direct: +47.32260201
> Mobile: +47.40410200
>
> > On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:28, John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Remind me again, which side of this fight has been disparaging and
> defaming the other side? Please. Its your pals that have been engaging in a
> pattern of sexism, not mine.
> >
> > --
> > John Bambenek
> >
> >> On Dec 8, 2017, at 14:11, "benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
> >>
> >> No it’s not about you, it’s  about the way people form the group you
> apparently represent have been acting in discussions.
> >> And that have imo been manipulating for making no progress.
> >>
> >> Well free privacy whois isn't a solution as long as the anti abuse
> people states that it will create problems for the user.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
> >>
> >> Benny Samuelsen
> >> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
> >>
> >> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
> >> IANA-ID: 638
> >> Phone: +46.42197000
> >> Direct: +47.32260201
> >> Mobile: +47.40410200
> >>
> >>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:00, John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You seem to think this is about me and not the dozens of security and
> anti-abuse professionals who have left this list... I am not sure why you
> think that.
> >>>
> >>> You also seem to think by saying I haven't come up with a better
> solution (whois privacy for free) or that I support that status quo (I do
> not), that it makes it true.
> >>>
> >>> But it's also when we talk about exactly those things Chuck chimes in
> to say we aren't there yet, which is why I've refrained.
> >>>
> >>> I will be contributing once we are talking about those issues as I
> have been contributing in ways outside your visibility up to this point.
> >>>
> >>> But that doesn't mitigate or change the conduct of members of this
> list who have engaged in a pattern of bullying, manipulation, and sexism to
> try to make their point. It has not gone unnoticed.
> >>>
> >>> j
> >>>> On 12/07/2017 11:42 PM, benny at nordreg.se wrote:
> >>>> Sorry to point it out but imo you have bullied yourself of the buss
> with not wanting to contribute to a new solution where you can exist but in
> same time we can make a better solution overall which not equal Status Quo.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 7 Dec 2017, at 22:17, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The question has never been asked directly. So you want to get me on
> the bus, ask the question, as I have phrased it             directly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But considering almost all the anti-abuse and security types have
> more or less been bullied off the bus, does it really matter anymore?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> j
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/07/2017 03:01 PM, theo geurts wrote:
> >>>>>> And as confirmed by Hamilton.
> >>>>>> And as confirmed by the Dutch DPA.
> >>>>>> And as confirmed by WP29.
> >>>>>> John, why do we keep having this conversation?
> >>>>>> What do we need to do here to get you on the bus, so we do not get
> under the bus?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Theo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 7-12-2017 21:41, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
> >>>>>>> No, not necessarily. The criteria for obtaining valid,
> freely-given consent is demanding, and one cannot be asked to consent to
> processing that is otherwise unlawful. We were told in the first legal memo
> from WSGR that consent is not a silver bullet here.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> — Ayden
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
> >>>>>>>> Local Time: 7 December 2017 8:18 PM
> >>>>>>>> UTC Time: 7 December 2017 20:18
> >>>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> >>>>>>>> To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> >>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This interpretation is wrong. The latter clearly says that
> consent in the current system is not clearly given. If a domain holder had
> the free and informed option to publish information in whois or not THIS
> ISSUE IS SOLVED.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> John Bambenek
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 17:59, Volker Greimann <
> vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Michele,
> >>>>>>>>> I read this a final and very clear warning from the European
> DPAs to ICANN and its contracted parties to stop messing about and start
> getting ready in time for May 25. The references to previous notices make
> it very clear that there will be no  consideration given after that date.
> While the letter contains nothing new to anyone who has paid any attention,
> it is very clear in its message: Public Whois is illegal in its current
> shape and form, and there is no way to make it legal without making it
> non-public.
> >>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>> Volker
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Am 06.12.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
> >>>>>>>>>> All
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'd highly recommend that you take the time to read the latest
> letter from the Article 29 Working Party to ICANN:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/falque-
> pierrotin-to-chalaby-marby-06Dec17-en.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> (also attached)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> For clarity the Article 29 WP represents the views of the DPAs
> of the EU member states. In many instances DPAs will address their concerns
> via this group rather than individually.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michele
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
> >>>>>>>>>> Blacknight Solutions
> >>>>>>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.blacknight.com/
> >>>>>>>>>> https://blacknight.blog/
> >>>>>>>>>> https://ceo.hosting/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>
> >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------
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> Park,Sleaty
> >>>>>>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
> >>>>>>>>>> Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> >>>>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
> >>>>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
> >>>>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
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> >>>>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> >>>>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> >>>>>>>>> Email:
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> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> >>>>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
>
> _________________________________
> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>
>
>
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