[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
allison nixon
elsakoo at gmail.com
Mon Dec 11 17:37:06 UTC 2017
this is the first time ive heard of this existing. how does one get access?
if the private sector cannot get access, then it is already a failure.
On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Chen, Tim <tim at domaintools.com> wrote:
> and just because it's being done doesn't mean it's being done effectively.
>
> do we have any data from the users of these currently-existing gated
> systems to get their opinion as to whether it works for them?
>
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 8:09 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <
> michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>>
>> We have been thinking about what it means in reality, as we are the ones
>> who will have to implement it.
>>
>>
>>
>> For now, I can see a situation where a registrar will end up running RDAP
>> with ACLs. And there’ll be layers of access with logging etc.,
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s already being done by a lot of ccTLDs and by two gTLDs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just because it’s not “simple” doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Michele
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>
>> Blacknight Solutions
>>
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>
>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>
>> http://blacknight.blog/
>>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072>
>>
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090>
>>
>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>>
>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>> Park,Sleaty
>>
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>
>> *From: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
>> Richard Leaning <rleaning at ripe.net>
>> *Date: *Monday 11 December 2017 at 15:00
>> *To: *Chuck <consult at cgomes.com>
>> *Cc: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Wasn’t sure to add to this thread a start a new one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Accreditation and tiered access is something am hearing regularly now
>> when discussing a ‘new’ whois. Its was spoken about in corridors and bars
>> at the last ICANN meeting and when am walking around Brussels from meeting
>> to meeting, conference to conference its always popping up as the thing
>> thats going to save us all.
>>
>>
>>
>> But has anyone stopped to think about this, what do these small words
>> mean in reality. So who is going to decided who should be accredited,
>> ICANN? ITU? Interpol? Europol? some brand new organisations? this debate
>> alone will take another 5 years on top of the years we are going to spend
>> on this WG.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just wanted to point out that everyone throws this around without
>> actually considering what it means in the real world.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Leaning
>>
>> External Relations
>>
>> RIPE NCC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 21:45, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Caution to all. This thread is getting too personal and that is not
>> constructive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *benny at nordreg.se
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 8, 2017 9:27 AM
>> *To:* allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>>
>>
>>
>> About behavior in the discussion in general
>>
>> Who bullies who...
>>
>>
>>
>> I did not mention any particular and it was a comment on a view of the
>> above.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your assumptions are way of track and insulting in so many ways. And
>> kind of show my point, a comment misused by quoting it out of context
>> making it a fact with out context.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 18:16, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Please clarify: "Sure… your pals are always innocent right?"
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2017 12:03 PM, "benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>>
>> Criminals were did that come from???
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 17:22, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>>
>> >> Lets just agree that we have different viewpoints on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm assuming you're referencing the earlier defamation against spamhaus
>> that occurred on this list, apparently without the leadership of this list
>> flagging it as inappropriate? Or are you accusing someone else of being a
>> criminal? Please do be more specific. It's better when the defamation is
>> explicit rather than inferred.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:48 AM, benny at nordreg.se <benny at nordreg.se>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>>
>> Lets just agree that we have different viewpoints on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>>
>> Benny Samuelsen
>> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>>
>> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>> IANA-ID: 638
>> Phone: +46.42197000
>> Direct: +47.32260201
>> Mobile: +47.40410200
>>
>> > On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:28, John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Remind me again, which side of this fight has been disparaging and
>> defaming the other side? Please. Its your pals that have been engaging in a
>> pattern of sexism, not mine.
>> >
>> > --
>> > John Bambenek
>> >
>> >> On Dec 8, 2017, at 14:11, "benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No it’s not about you, it’s about the way people form the group you
>> apparently represent have been acting in discussions.
>> >> And that have imo been manipulating for making no progress.
>> >>
>> >> Well free privacy whois isn't a solution as long as the anti abuse
>> people states that it will create problems for the user.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>> >>
>> >> Benny Samuelsen
>> >> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>> >>
>> >> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>> >> IANA-ID: 638
>> >> Phone: +46.42197000
>> >> Direct: +47.32260201
>> >> Mobile: +47.40410200
>> >>
>> >>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:00, John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> You seem to think this is about me and not the dozens of security and
>> anti-abuse professionals who have left this list... I am not sure why you
>> think that.
>> >>>
>> >>> You also seem to think by saying I haven't come up with a better
>> solution (whois privacy for free) or that I support that status quo (I do
>> not), that it makes it true.
>> >>>
>> >>> But it's also when we talk about exactly those things Chuck chimes in
>> to say we aren't there yet, which is why I've refrained.
>> >>>
>> >>> I will be contributing once we are talking about those issues as I
>> have been contributing in ways outside your visibility up to this point.
>> >>>
>> >>> But that doesn't mitigate or change the conduct of members of this
>> list who have engaged in a pattern of bullying, manipulation, and sexism to
>> try to make their point. It has not gone unnoticed.
>> >>>
>> >>> j
>> >>>> On 12/07/2017 11:42 PM, benny at nordreg.se wrote:
>> >>>> Sorry to point it out but imo you have bullied yourself of the buss
>> with not wanting to contribute to a new solution where you can exist but in
>> same time we can make a better solution overall which not equal Status Quo.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 7 Dec 2017, at 22:17, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The question has never been asked directly. So you want to get me
>> on the bus, ask the question, as I have phrased it directly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But considering almost all the anti-abuse and security types have
>> more or less been bullied off the bus, does it really matter anymore?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> j
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 12/07/2017 03:01 PM, theo geurts wrote:
>> >>>>>> And as confirmed by Hamilton.
>> >>>>>> And as confirmed by the Dutch DPA.
>> >>>>>> And as confirmed by WP29.
>> >>>>>> John, why do we keep having this conversation?
>> >>>>>> What do we need to do here to get you on the bus, so we do not get
>> under the bus?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Theo
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 7-12-2017 21:41, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>> >>>>>>> No, not necessarily. The criteria for obtaining valid,
>> freely-given consent is demanding, and one cannot be asked to consent to
>> processing that is otherwise unlawful. We were told in the first legal memo
>> from WSGR that consent is not a silver bullet here.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> — Ayden
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>> >>>>>>>> Local Time: 7 December 2017 8:18 PM
>> >>>>>>>> UTC Time: 7 December 2017 20:18
>> >>>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> >>>>>>>> To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>> >>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> This interpretation is wrong. The latter clearly says that
>> consent in the current system is not clearly given. If a domain holder had
>> the free and informed option to publish information in whois or not THIS
>> ISSUE IS SOLVED.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> John Bambenek
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 17:59, Volker Greimann <
>> vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Michele,
>> >>>>>>>>> I read this a final and very clear warning from the European
>> DPAs to ICANN and its contracted parties to stop messing about and start
>> getting ready in time for May 25. The references to previous notices make
>> it very clear that there will be no consideration given after that date.
>> While the letter contains nothing new to anyone who has paid any attention,
>> it is very clear in its message: Public Whois is illegal in its current
>> shape and form, and there is no way to make it legal without making it
>> non-public.
>> >>>>>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>>>>> Volker
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 06.12.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
>> >>>>>>>>>> All
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd highly recommend that you take the time to read the latest
>> letter from the Article 29 Working Party to ICANN:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/corresponde
>> nce/falque-pierrotin-to-chalaby-marby-06Dec17-en.pdf
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> (also attached)
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> For clarity the Article 29 WP represents the views of the DPAs
>> of the EU member states. In many instances DPAs will address their concerns
>> via this group rather than individually.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Michele
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> >>>>>>>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://blacknight.blog/
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://ceo.hosting/
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
>> Business Park,Sleaty
>> >>>>>>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>> >>>>>>>>>> Ireland Company No.: 370845
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>> >>>>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> >>>>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> >>>>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> >>>>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> >>>>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> >>>>>>>>> Email:
>> >>>>>>>>> vgreimann at key-systems.net
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Web:
>> >>>>>>>>> www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>> <http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
>> >>>>>>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>> <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> >>>>>>>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> www.keydrive.lu
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den
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>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate
>> to contact us.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>> >>>>>>>>> - legal department -
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> >>>>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> >>>>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> >>>>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> >>>>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> >>>>>>>>> Email:
>> >>>>>>>>> vgreimann at key-systems.net
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Web:
>> >>>>>>>>> www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>> <http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
>> >>>>>>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>> <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and
>> stay updated:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> >>>>>>>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> >>>>>>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> >>>>>>>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> www.keydrive.lu
>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> >>>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> >>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> >>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> _________________________________
>> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
_________________________________
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
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