[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Wed Jan 4 16:26:52 UTC 2017
Hi Steven,
while not reselling in the meaning of the RAA (I know the definition, I
worked with ICANN to write it), they are still resellers in the broader
term of the word, and in the eyes of many not that deep into the legal
definition in the RAA.
Best,
Volker
Am 04.01.2017 um 17:10 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>
> Volker,
>
> The entities you describe do not sound like resellers within the
> meaning of the RAA:
>
> 1.24 A "Reseller" is a person or entity that participates in
> Registrar's distribution channel for domain name registrations (a)
> pursuant to an agreement, arrangement or understanding with Registrar
> or (b) with Registrar's actual knowledge, provides some or all
> Registrar Services, including collecting registration data about
> Registered Name Holders, submitting that data to Registrar, or
> facilitating the entry of the registration agreement between the
> Registrar and the Registered Name Holder.
>
> *image001*
>
> *Steven J. Metalitz *|***Partner, through his professional corporation*
>
> T: 202.355.7902 |met at msk.com <mailto:met at msk.com>**
>
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> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 04, 2017 10:51 AM
> *To:* Greg Shatan
> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG
> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> we have hundreds of resellers who do not self-identify as such. They
> open end customer accounts and register domains for others, as their
> agents. No reseller agreements are in place in such cases as we have
> no way of knowing. Consider for example web-developers registering
> domains for their clients with a registrar. Or lawyers registering
> domains for their clients.
>
> I am using the term agent loosely in the sense of: "an entity doing
> things at the request of another entity - whatever their contractual
> relationship may be".
>
> Am 04.01.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Greg Shatan:
>
> Volker,
>
> What types of cases are you thinking of? And how do reseller
> agreements in these cases reflect that difference?
>
> In either case, are we talking about a true legal
> "principal-agent" relationship? (Defined as "A consensual
> relationship created by contract or by law where one party, the
> principal, grants authority for another party, the agent, to act
> on behalf of and under the control of the principal to deal with a
> third party. An agency relationship is fiduciary in nature [to the
> benefit of the principal], and the actions and words of an agent
> exchanged with a third party bind the principal."? Or are we
> using the term "agent" more loosely?
>
> Thanks for any light you can shed on the topic.
>
> Greg
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Volker Greimann
> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
> This is not always the case. Many resellers are more like agents
> of the registrant than agents of the registrar.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 03.01.2017 um 23:51 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
>
> How resellers work is relatively straight forward. They are
> agents working on behalf of a registrar. The handle the
> transaction and often ongoing contact with the registrant.
> Some registrars have no resellers, others some resellers, and
> some registrars only work through resellers and have no direct
> registratns. Of course, you may find that a reseller is really
> a subsidiary of the registrar (or in some other business
> relationship with them other than purely a reseller).
>
> Until relatively recently, ICANN took the position that since
> they had no contract with resellers, they had no control over
> what resellers did. In more recent RAAs, there are explicit
> clauses which require that if a registrar delegates anything
> to resellers, that they must ensure that the reseller fulfill
> any obligations that the registrar would have if they were
> dealing with the registrant directly. Past RAAs only covereed
> some of these requirements but my recollection is that the
> current RAA pretty much puts a registrant in the same
> situation regardless of whether they are dealing with the
> registrar directly or a reseller (I may be wrong about that,
> but that is my recollection).
>
> Of course, it is up to the registrar to ensure that these
> obligations are followed, or ICANN compliance to identify
> places where they may not be doing so.
>
> Is that any clearer?
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> At 03/01/2017 02:56 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
>
> Happy New Year all! You are probably going to hate me because
> I am going to slow us down again. The problem is that we frame
> the discussion and thinking so very differently, depending on
> the expertise that we bring to this debate, that understanding
> the minutiae is very important. For instance on a recent
> call I questioned whether an individual needed to look at
> WHOIS to see who their registrar is, and was promptly
> corrected in this matter. Naive person that I am, I had never
> plumbed the depths of the reseller business, and I am not
> finding much useful information on the ICANN site that will
> help me do this (please help and point me to how this happens,
> what kind of contracts pass on obligations, how this is
> interpreted under DP law, why I cannot find my registrar on
> any of the lists of ICANN accredited registrars, consumer
> protection obligations under US law, how this works in the
> privacy proxy business etc.). IN my responses to the
> questionnaire, I have pointed out that it is the registrars
> and registries or their agents that collect/generate the Thin
> data. The proposed RDS, which at the moment is still protean,
> is not an entity, cannot collect etc, but is instead a display
> mechanism or automated disclosure instrument. So framing this
> in terms of collection is in my view quite misleading, unless
> I am totally misunderstanding the poll (always possible).
>
> Anyway if anyone can help me understand how resellers work I
> would be most grateful. It would probably also save us a pile
> of time if I understood it better, if that can possibly
> incentivize some brave soul.....
>
> cheers Stephanie Perrin
>
>
>
> On 2017-01-03 10:31, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago one of our WG members said something to me
> that I think might be a good challenge for many of us as we
> begin 2017: “I think people (including me) need to snap back
> to attention. I think we lost focus because of the incredible
> amount of lost traffic on minutiae that was so hard for
> non-ICANN insiders to follow.”
>
> If this applies to you, I hope you will respond.
>
> I can tell you that no one gets more frustrated with minutiae
> than me. I have just been at this for so long that I have
> learned minutiae for one person is important to someone else
> so I have realized that I have to have a lot of patience.
> Still, I often find myself wanting to push faster ahead and
> the leadership team has to pull me back.
>
> It has taken us about 11 months to get to where we are and it
> may seem like we have made very little progress but I am
> hopeful that we have laid some building blocks that will make
> our work ahead easier. We need to all keep in mind that the
> ICANN community has been grappling with Whois (RDS) issues for
> most of its 18-year existence with very minimal progress. If
> we are going to change that pattern, we will have to be
> patient and persistent.
>
> As we ended 2016 we reached the critical deliberation stage of
> Work Plan Phase 1. None of us should think that that will be
> easy or quick; it won’t be. But I am confident that we will
> start to see more concrete results of our efforts.
>
> I encourage all of you to start off this year by completing
> the poll that was distributed last week. You have until
> Friday of this week to complete it. Here is the link to the
> poll: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL .
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> Chuck
>
>
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> --
>
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
>
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
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> --------------------------------------------
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>
> Volker A. Greimann
>
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
>
> Im Oberen Werk 1
>
> 66386 St. Ingbert
>
> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
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> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
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> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
> --------------------------------------------
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> Best regards,
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
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--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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