[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge
Metalitz, Steven
met at msk.com
Wed Jan 4 16:45:49 UTC 2017
Accepting that the label can be used more broadly in common parlance, for purposes of this Working Group, it’s clearer to stick to the legal definition, which might answer some of Stephanie’s original questions. So for example, resellers under the RAA take on essentially all the obligations of registrars, including obligations regarding “collecting registration data about the Registered Name Holders” (included within the definition of “Registrar Services”). Section 3.12 of the 2013 RAA sets this out rather comprehensively:
1. 3.12 Obligations Related to Provision of Registrar Services by Third Parties. Registrar is responsible for the provision of Registrar Services for all Registered Names that Registrar sponsors being performed in compliance with this Agreement, regardless of whether the Registrar Services are provided by Registrar or a third party, including a Reseller. Registrar must enter into written agreements with all of its Resellers that enable Registrar to comply with and perform all of its obligations under this Agreement. In addition, Registrar must ensure that:
3.12.1 Its Resellers do not display the ICANN or ICANN-Accredited Registrar logo, or otherwise represent themselves as Accredited by ICANN, unless they have written permission from ICANN to do so.
3.12.2 Any registration agreement used by reseller shall include all registration agreement provisions and notices required by the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement and any ICANN Consensus Policies, and shall identify the sponsoring registrar or provide a means for identifying the sponsoring registrar, such as a link to the InterNIC Whois lookup service.
3.12.3 Its Resellers identify the sponsoring registrar upon inquiry from the customer.
3.12.4 Its Resellers comply with any ICANN-adopted Specification or Policy that establishes a program for accreditation of individuals or entities who provide proxy and privacy registration services (a "Proxy Accreditation Program"). Among other features, the Proxy Accreditation Program may require that: (i) proxy and privacy registration services may only be provided in respect of domain name registrations by individuals or entities Accredited by ICANN pursuant to such Proxy Accreditation Program; and (ii) Registrar shall prohibit Resellers from knowingly accepting registrations from any provider of proxy and privacy registration services that is not Accredited by ICANN pursuant the Proxy Accreditation Program. Until such time as the Proxy Accreditation Program is established, Registrar shall require Resellers to comply with the Specification on Privacy and Proxy Registrations attached hereto.
3.12.5 Its Resellers' customers are provided with a link to an ICANN webpage detailing registrant educational information, as detailed in subsection 3.16 below.
3.12.6 In the event Registrar learns that a Reseller is causing Registrar to be in breach of any of the provisions of this Agreement, Registrar shall take reasonable steps to enforce its agreement with such Reseller so as to cure and prevent further instances of non-compliance.
3.12.7 Its Resellers shall publish on their website(s) and/or provide a link to the Registrants' Benefits and Responsibilities Specification attached hereto and shall not take any action inconsistent with the corresponding provisions of this Agreement or applicable law.
Registrar shall use commercially reasonable efforts to enforce compliance with the provisions of the agreement between Registrar and any Reseller that relate to the provisions of Registrar Services.
Additionally, under the Registrar Information Specification, registrars must provide to ICANN a list of all its known resellers, although it is not required to make this public. l
[image001]
Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation
T: 202.355.7902 | met at msk.com<mailto:met at msk.com>
Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/>
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From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 11:27 AM
To: Metalitz, Steven; Greg Shatan
Cc: RDS PDP WG
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge
Hi Steven,
while not reselling in the meaning of the RAA (I know the definition, I worked with ICANN to write it), they are still resellers in the broader term of the word, and in the eyes of many not that deep into the legal definition in the RAA.
Best,
Volker
Am 04.01.2017 um 17:10 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
Volker,
The entities you describe do not sound like resellers within the meaning of the RAA:
1.24 A "Reseller" is a person or entity that participates in Registrar's distribution channel for domain name registrations (a) pursuant to an agreement, arrangement or understanding with Registrar or (b) with Registrar's actual knowledge, provides some or all Registrar Services, including collecting registration data about Registered Name Holders, submitting that data to Registrar, or facilitating the entry of the registration agreement between the Registrar and the Registered Name Holder.
[image001]
Steven J. Metalitz | Partner, through his professional corporation
T: 202.355.7902 | met at msk.com<mailto:met at msk.com>
Mitchell Silberberg & KnuppLLP | www.msk.com<http://www.msk.com/>
1818 N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 10:51 AM
To: Greg Shatan
Cc: RDS PDP WG
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge
Hi Greg,
we have hundreds of resellers who do not self-identify as such. They open end customer accounts and register domains for others, as their agents. No reseller agreements are in place in such cases as we have no way of knowing. Consider for example web-developers registering domains for their clients with a registrar. Or lawyers registering domains for their clients.
I am using the term agent loosely in the sense of: "an entity doing things at the request of another entity - whatever their contractual relationship may be".
Am 04.01.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Greg Shatan:
Volker,
What types of cases are you thinking of? And how do reseller agreements in these cases reflect that difference?
In either case, are we talking about a true legal "principal-agent" relationship? (Defined as "A consensual relationship created by contract or by law where one party, the principal, grants authority for another party, the agent, to act on behalf of and under the control of the principal to deal with a third party. An agency relationship is fiduciary in nature [to the benefit of the principal], and the actions and words of an agent exchanged with a third party bind the principal."? Or are we using the term "agent" more loosely?
Thanks for any light you can shed on the topic.
Greg
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
This is not always the case. Many resellers are more like agents of the registrant than agents of the registrar.
Best,
Volker
Am 03.01.2017 um 23:51 schrieb Alan Greenberg:
How resellers work is relatively straight forward. They are agents working on behalf of a registrar. The handle the transaction and often ongoing contact with the registrant. Some registrars have no resellers, others some resellers, and some registrars only work through resellers and have no direct registratns. Of course, you may find that a reseller is really a subsidiary of the registrar (or in some other business relationship with them other than purely a reseller).
Until relatively recently, ICANN took the position that since they had no contract with resellers, they had no control over what resellers did. In more recent RAAs, there are explicit clauses which require that if a registrar delegates anything to resellers, that they must ensure that the reseller fulfill any obligations that the registrar would have if they were dealing with the registrant directly. Past RAAs only covereed some of these requirements but my recollection is that the current RAA pretty much puts a registrant in the same situation regardless of whether they are dealing with the registrar directly or a reseller (I may be wrong about that, but that is my recollection).
Of course, it is up to the registrar to ensure that these obligations are followed, or ICANN compliance to identify places where they may not be doing so.
Is that any clearer?
Alan
At 03/01/2017 02:56 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
Happy New Year all! You are probably going to hate me because I am going to slow us down again. The problem is that we frame the discussion and thinking so very differently, depending on the expertise that we bring to this debate, that understanding the minutiae is very important. For instance on a recent call I questioned whether an individual needed to look at WHOIS to see who their registrar is, and was promptly corrected in this matter. Naive person that I am, I had never plumbed the depths of the reseller business, and I am not finding much useful information on the ICANN site that will help me do this (please help and point me to how this happens, what kind of contracts pass on obligations, how this is interpreted under DP law, why I cannot find my registrar on any of the lists of ICANN accredited registrars, consumer protection obligations under US law, how this works in the privacy proxy business etc.). IN my responses to the questionnaire, I have pointed out that it is the registrars and registries or their agents that collect/generate the Thin data. The proposed RDS, which at the moment is still protean, is not an entity, cannot collect etc, but is instead a display mechanism or automated disclosure instrument. So framing this in terms of collection is in my view quite misleading, unless I am totally misunderstanding the poll (always possible).
Anyway if anyone can help me understand how resellers work I would be most grateful. It would probably also save us a pile of time if I understood it better, if that can possibly incentivize some brave soul.....
cheers Stephanie Perrin
On 2017-01-03 10:31, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
A few weeks ago one of our WG members said something to me that I think might be a good challenge for many of us as we begin 2017: “I think people (including me) need to snap back to attention. I think we lost focus because of the incredible amount of lost traffic on minutiae that was so hard for non-ICANN insiders to follow.”
If this applies to you, I hope you will respond.
I can tell you that no one gets more frustrated with minutiae than me. I have just been at this for so long that I have learned minutiae for one person is important to someone else so I have realized that I have to have a lot of patience. Still, I often find myself wanting to push faster ahead and the leadership team has to pull me back.
It has taken us about 11 months to get to where we are and it may seem like we have made very little progress but I am hopeful that we have laid some building blocks that will make our work ahead easier. We need to all keep in mind that the ICANN community has been grappling with Whois (RDS) issues for most of its 18-year existence with very minimal progress. If we are going to change that pattern, we will have to be patient and persistent.
As we ended 2016 we reached the critical deliberation stage of Work Plan Phase 1. None of us should think that that will be easy or quick; it won’t be. But I am confident that we will start to see more concrete results of our efforts.
I encourage all of you to start off this year by completing the poll that was distributed last week. You have until Friday of this week to complete it. Here is the link to the poll: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL<https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL> .
Happy New Year.
Chuck
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