[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Wed May 31 13:47:38 UTC 2017
Why, just this month the German Bundesgerichtshof confirmed this in a
review of a decision of the state court Berlin ( Az. VI ZR 135/13):
http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/document.py?Gericht=bgh&Art=pm&Datum=2017&Sort=3&nr=78289&pos=0&anz=74
It followed the decision of the European Court from October last year:
C-582/14, NJW 2016, 3579
The German explanation:
/"Auf der Grundlage des EuGH-Urteils ist das Tatbestandsmerkmal
"personenbezogene Daten" des § 12 Abs. 1 und 2 TMG in Verbindung mit § 3
Abs. 1 BDSG richtlinienkonform auszulegen: Eine dynamische IP-Adresse,
die von einem Anbieter von Online-Mediendiensten beim Zugriff einer
Person auf eine Internetseite, die dieser Anbieter allgemein zugänglich
macht, gespeichert wird, stellt für den Anbieter ein (geschütztes)
personenbezogenes Datum dar. //
/
/Als personenbezogenes Datum darf die IP-Adresse nur unter den
Voraussetzungen des § 15 Abs. 1 TMG gespeichert werden. Diese Vorschrift
ist richtlinienkonform entsprechend Art. 7 Buchst. f der Richtlinie
95/46 EG – in der Auslegung durch den EuGH – dahin anzuwenden, dass ein
Anbieter von Online-Mediendiensten personenbezogene Daten eines Nutzers
dieser Dienste ohne dessen Einwilligung auch über das Ende eines
Nutzungsvorgangs hinaus dann erheben und verwenden darf, soweit ihre
Erhebung und ihre Verwendung erforderlich sind, um die generelle
Funktionsfähigkeit der Dienste zu gewährleisten. Dabei bedarf es
allerdings einer Abwägung mit dem Interesse und den Grundrechten und
-freiheiten der Nutzer."/
Hope this helps.
Am 31.05.2017 um 15:38 schrieb Paul Keating:
>>
>> See: recent Europrean court decisions on IP addresses as PII.
>>
>
> Can you please provide the citations? I a-m not aware of any court
> decision issuingsuch a broad ruling.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 31 May 2017, at 12:20, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net
> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
>> In some cases the ability to use data set A in combination with data
>> set B to enable one to identify an individual turns data set A into PII.
>>
>> See: recent Europrean court decisions on IP addresses as PII.
>>
>> I am with you in viewing thin data as rather unlikely to be defined
>> as PII, but depending on how this data is used it is not
>> inconceivable that it may be found to contain PII depending on the
>> use. Unlikely, but not impossible.
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>> Am 30.05.2017 um 23:40 schrieb Paul Keating:
>>> Im sorry but i don't see the logic here (or the legal constraint)
>>>
>>> Privacy laws protect personal data of INDIVIDUALS. They do t
>>> protect non-personal data or data from non-individuals.
>>>
>>> Nothing on the list below is personal data. And no e of the
>>> principles given by Natalie apply.
>>>
>>> The fact that i could use the data to obtain other data is
>>> irrelevant. I can use a car to rob a bank but that itself is not a
>>> reason to restrict access to automobiles.
>>>
>>> Me thinks you are trying to create a scarcity for some reason.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 30 May 2017, at 23:22, Chris Pelling <chris at netearth.net
>>> <mailto:chris at netearth.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok - a thought :
>>>>
>>>> Thin data includes nameservers, being able to *_mass_* collect thin
>>>> data gaining NS information then allows you to do a DIG of a SOA
>>>> record on the DNS service to gain the email address of the
>>>> hostmaster :
>>>>
>>>> Some examples (radomly picked from the list) :
>>>> gmail.com <http://gmail.com> :
>>>> SOA ns1.google.com <http://ns1.google.com>. dns-admin.google.com
>>>> <http://dns-admin.google.com>. 157458041 900 900 1800 60
>>>> netearthone.com <http://netearthone.com>
>>>> SOA ns1.netearth.net <http://ns1.netearth.net>.
>>>> root.netearthone.com <http://root.netearthone.com>. 2016090201
>>>> 14400 3600 1209600 86400
>>>> law.es <http://law.es>
>>>> SOA ns1.eurodns.com <http://ns1.eurodns.com>.
>>>> hostmaster.eurodns.com <http://hostmaster.eurodns.com>. 2016061402
>>>> 43200 7200 1209600 86400
>>>> riskiq.net <http://riskiq.net>
>>>> SOA ns-1754.awsdns-27.co.uk <http://ns-1754.awsdns-27.co.uk>.
>>>> awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com <http://awsdns-hostmaster.amazon.com>.
>>>> 1 7200 900 1209600 86400
>>>>
>>>> Now as you can see - those above examples allow you to get (or
>>>> build) an email list. Most will normally point to the providers
>>>> service, but, some that are DIY'ing their hosting, it might not be.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From: *"allison nixon" <elsakoo at gmail.com <mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>>
>>>> *To: *"nathalie coupet" <nathaliecoupet at yahoo.com
>>>> <mailto:nathaliecoupet at yahoo.com>>
>>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 30 May, 2017 21:52:32
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle on Proportionality for
>>>> "Thin Data"access
>>>>
>>>> so can you name one specific example of how someone could abuse
>>>> thin data?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 4:50 PM, nathalie coupet via
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *Abuse* is the improper usage or treatment of an entity
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity>, often to unfairly
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_justice> or
>>>> improperly gain benefit. In our context, abuse is the improper
>>>> usage of WHOIS/RDS to unfairly or improperly gain access to
>>>> information or to game the system.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some of the overarching principles which should guide
>>>> us when building RDS:
>>>>
>>>> DATA LIFECYCLE PRIVACY PRINCIPLE
>>>> PROTECTION MEASURE
>>>> Collection Proportionality and purpose specification Data
>>>> minimisation, Data quality
>>>> Storage Accountability, Security measures,
>>>> Sensitive data Confidentiality, Encryption,
>>>> Pseudonomisation
>>>> Sharing and processing Lawfulness and fairness, Consent, Right
>>>> of access Data access control, Data leakage prevention
>>>> Deletion Openness, Right to erasure Retention, Archival, Erasure
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If such principles are not respected, ICANN will be liable.
>>>> Consumers don't need to have all the thin data when making a
>>>> query. This could protect them and enable them to have access
>>>> to the RDS without raising much opposition.
>>>>
>>>> Now, we could discuss the possibility for broader query types.
>>>> These principles would still apply, but would be contextualized
>>>> in order to take into account new sets of parameters for each
>>>> broader query. By increasing granularity as much as possible,
>>>> while applying these aformentioned principles, we just might
>>>> find a way to accomodate everyone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nathalie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 4:00 PM, John Horton
>>>> <john.horton at legitscript.com
>>>> <mailto:john.horton at legitscript.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was going to reply to Natalie's email as well, but Paul's
>>>> comments capture my thoughts, so: *+1. *
>>>>
>>>> John Horton
>>>> President and CEO, LegitScript
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *FollowLegitScript*: LinkedIn
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter
>>>> <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog
>>>> <http://blog.legitscript.com/> |Google+
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Paul Keating <paul at law.es
>>>> <mailto:paul at law.es>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Natalie,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the email. Im copying the list because i see
>>>> others have replied to your comment.
>>>>
>>>> I strenuously object to the concept. We are discussing
>>>> THIN DATA ONLY HERE. Unless someone can explain to me why
>>>> any of this data set has privacy concerns this is a
>>>> non-issue. I would certainly appreciate someone explaining
>>>> what, if any, privacy issues are perceived to be at issue here.
>>>>
>>>> Moreover, while you suggest that the idea escapes the need
>>>> to declare a purpose, it does nothing but reinforce a
>>>> subjective criteria based system in which the declared
>>>> purpose is used to somehow limit the data being retrieved.
>>>>
>>>> If i am missing something please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On 30 May 2017, at 21:08, nathalie coupet via
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>
>>>> In the context of thin data, in view of the opposition
>>>> of some to allow unauthenticated access to all the thin
>>>> data, the principle of proportionality serves as an
>>>> over-arching principle at this particular phase in our
>>>> work in order to protect data from abuse while not
>>>> restricting access.
>>>> Thin data must be proportionate to the query, be useful
>>>> for that particular query. All and any other thin data
>>>> foreign to this query should not be shared. This
>>>> principle potentially avoids having to resort to
>>>> 'legitimate purposes' which cannot be verified for
>>>> unauthenticated access.
>>>> Nathalie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:44 PM, "Gomes, Chuck via
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because Nathalie was the originator and was unable to
>>>> speak on the call, I encourage her to describe the
>>>> nature of the issue on this thread.
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann. org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg- bounces at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf
>>>> Of *Paul Keating
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:17 PM
>>>> *To:* Lisa Phifer <lisa at corecom.com
>>>> <mailto:lisa at corecom.com>>; RDS PDP WG
>>>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle
>>>> on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access
>>>> Im sorry to have missed the call but had a client
>>>> engagement.
>>>> Can someone briefly describe the nature of the issue?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Paul
>>>> *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@ icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf
>>>> of Lisa Phifer <lisa at corecom.com <mailto:lisa at corecom.com>>
>>>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 7:52 PM
>>>> *To: *RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>> *Subject: *[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle on
>>>> Proportionality for "Thin Data"access
>>>>
>>>> All, per today's call action item:
>>>>
>>>> *Action Item: Nathalie Coupet and any other WG
>>>> members who wish to do so to propose to the WG list
>>>> a new principle on proportionality for "thin data."
>>>> All WG members to comment on that proposed
>>>> principle in advance of next call.
>>>>
>>>> *we are starting a new thread here which anyone may
>>>> reply to if they wish to propose (or respond to) a
>>>> new principle on proportionality for "thin data"
>>>> access.
>>>>
>>>> Best, Lisa
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
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>>>> --
>>>> _________________________________
>>>> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
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>>
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
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>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
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>>
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--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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