[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The principle for thin data (was Re: Principle on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access)

[Gomes, Chuck]

Well said Stephanie.  I still remember one of the DP experts in Copenhagen saying what you say below, because data is personal does not mean it cannot be disclosed.



Chuck



From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Perrin
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 5:03 PM
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The principle for thin data (was Re: Principle on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access)



Your summary today was great Andrew.

I am not arguing about the disclosure of thin data.  We already voted on unauthenticated mandatory disclosure, weeks ago (or at least it feels like weeks ago).  Lets please move on.  We are debating this yet again, because people keep asking, is thin data personal?  [lots of people missed the last call]  The answer is yes (IMHO).  Does that mean it cannot be disclosed?  The answer is no.  Does the proportionality principle apply?  Yes.  Have we already gone through this?  Yes.  Can we come back to it?  Yes, but hopefully only if we have to.....we will have to when we get to data elements.

cheers Stephanie
PS a fundamental problem here is that people try to categorize information that in their view should be disclosed, as not personal information.  This fight has gone on for years over IP address, for instance.  The important question is not actually whether it is personal data or not, it is "do you need to disclose it to make things work?"....and if the answer is yes then you try to mitigate the disclosure and try to keep it minimized to what is absolutely required.  Hence the PIA, which should employ both data minimization and the test in the proportionality principle as techniques to evaluate data elements.
A good and really simple example is a phone number.  IS it personal info?  (the telcos fought for years, trying to claim they owned it and it was not personal).  Obviously it pertains to you, people feel strongly that it is personal (culturally relative of course but...) and yet if noone ever learns your number your phone won't ever receive a call.  That does not mean you have to disclose it everywhere.....only where necessary.  And it should mean that it does not have to follow you everywhere, but that is becoming increasingly hard to manage....

By the way, informed consent is not the same as transparency requirements.  Transparency requirements are exactly that....you have to be transparent about what you are doing with data.  Let us not conflate that with consent.

I will quit now and stop trying to answer questions.  I would like to humbly suggest, however, that we have a real shortage of basic understanding of how data protection law works and is interpreted.  If there is a data protection law expert that folks might listen to, we should hire that person to advise us.  It might save a lot of time.



On 2017-05-31 16:00, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

   Hi,

   On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 03:20:59PM -0400, Stephanie Perrin wrote:

      That does not mean we need to protect it, it means we have to examine it in
      terms of DP law.  May I repeat the suggestion that Canatacci made in
      Copenhagen in response to a question.....(I forget the precise question he
      was asked, sorry). If you want to figure out whether you have to protect
      something or not, do a privacy impact assessment.


   As I think I've said more than once in this thread, I think we _have_
   done that assessment and I think the answers are obvious and I think
   therefore that there is nothing more to say about this principle in
   respect of thin data:

       - the data is either necessary for the operation of the system
         itself or else necessary for distributed operation and
         troubleshooting on the Internet.

       - the data does not expose identifying information about anyone,
         except in rather strained examples where the identifying
         information is already completely available via other means.

   What more is one supposed to do?

   Best regards,

   A




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