[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] purpose and GDPR, cont

Greg Shatan gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Fri Nov 3 15:55:50 UTC 2017 

Volker,

Perhaps I wasn't clear in trying to clarify Vicky's email.  Vicky's email
had two PDF attachments: (1) GAC Communique, and (2) Taylor Wessing memo.
She did not say that the Taylor Wessing memo was referred to in the GAC
Communique.  The email sought to refer to these separately, but did so in
one long sentence.  I see now that this could be read as you did (i.e.,
with two dependent clauses, rather than two independent clauses).  Given
the state of everyone's brains after a week in Abu Dhabi (or a week trying
to live in two time zones 8 hours apart, in my case), this is entirely
understandable.

Perhaps it helps to break down Vicky's sentence, which helps identify the
two separate statements more clearly:

ICYMI, please see

[1] the attached GAC communique, which includes GAC advice on GDPR/WHOIS (
the relevant GAC advice is copied below) and

[2] legal advice on WHOIS/GDPR from Taylor Wessing which was commissioned
by the IPC, which provides another perspective on thinking about RDS/WHOIS
and GDPR.

-Vicky

​Apologies for any snark resulting from my misunderstanding of your
understanding of what Vicky was trying to communicate.  Hopefully this
clarifies that and gives you the opportunity to review the Taylor Wessing
memo.  This also provides a good reminder to all of us to write clearly.
When possible, we should follow Ernest Hemingway's advice "write short,
punchy sentences."  Combining the lawyers' love of long, multi-clause
sentences with the natural tendency to write emails more casually,
especially when on the run, can lead to unintended failures to
communicate....  (I will plead guilty to this myself.)

Thank you also to Ayden for reminding the group that the Taylor Wessing
memo was posted earlier to the ICANN website.

Best regards,

Greg​




On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> I did not see this memo referenced in the GAC communique and my comment
> was entirely in response to that. As I had read the communique in its
> entirety when it was published, I had some time to digest it already and
> noted that it did not contain anything substantially new and was easily
> implementable by any new RDS with tiered access.
>
> I also noted that the communique mainly refers to quick and lawful access,
> but not necessarily open or easy access although that point can certainly
> be argued.
>
> I did not see any reference to the memo you reference, to the contrary the
> GAC refers specifically to the outside counsel already tasked by ICANN,
> e.g. Hamilton.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 03.11.2017 um 16:29 schrieb Greg Shatan:
>
> Volker,
>
> Vicky's statement about "another perspective" refers to the Taylor Wessing
> memo.  Unless you saw the 21 page memo previously, I doubt that you read it
> fully in 8 minutes enabling you to dismiss it as "another perspective."  I
> would hope that you give other perspectives a little more time and
> consideration than that.
>
> Of course, you may have thought she was referring to the GAC Communique
> (so many commas...) -- even then, the apparent ability to fit new inputs to
> a pre-existing point of view with such rapidity is either impressive or
> concerning.
>
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Volker Greimann <
> vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Victoria,
>>
>> I would not necessarily see these as uses as the board calls them as
>> purposes but indeed as use cases of current whois.
>>
>> It also appears that these use cases can also be served by alternative
>> RDS systems (such as a tiered access system) without rejecting the GAC
>> advice.
>>
>> So while this makes interesting reading and gives some guidelines for our
>> work, I do not see this ultimately as "another perspective". It just
>> restates our mission.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Volker
>>
>> Am 03.11.2017 um 15:11 schrieb Victoria Sheckler:
>>
>> ICYMI, please see the attached GAC communique, which includes GAC advice
>> on GDPR/WHOIS ( the relevant GAC advice is copied below) and legal advice
>> on WHOIS/GDPR from Taylor Wessing which was commissioned by the IPC, which
>> provides another perspective on thinking about RDS/WHOIS and GDPR. -Vicky
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. GDPR/WHOIS
>>
>> *a. The GAC advises the ICANN Board that: *i. the 2007 GAC WHOIS
>> Principles (attached) continue to reflect the important public policy
>> issues associated with WHOIS services. Accordingly, ICANN should take these
>> issues into account as it moves forward with its planning to comply with
>> the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). In these
>> principles, the GAC has notably recognized that WHOIS data (also known as
>> Registration Directory Services) is used for a number of legitimate
>> activities, including: 1. Assisting law enforcement authorities in
>> investigations and in enforcing national and international laws, assisting
>> in combatting against abusive use of internet communication technologies;
>>
>> 2. Assisting businesses, other organizations, and users in combatting
>> fraud, complying with relevant laws, and safeguarding the interests of the
>> public;
>>
>> 3. Combatting infringement and misuse of intellectual property; and
>>
>> 4. Contributing to user confidence in the Internet as a reliable and
>> efficient means of information and communication by helping users identify
>> persons or entities responsible for content and services online.
>>
>>
>>
>> Accordingly,
>>
>> *b. the GAC advises the ICANN Board that: *i. as it considers how to
>> comply with the GDPR with regard to WHOIS, it should use its best efforts
>> to create a system that
>>
>> continues to facilitate the legitimate activities recognized in the 2007
>> Principles, including by: 1. Keeping WHOIS quickly accessible for security
>> and stability purposes, for consumer protection and law enforcement
>> investigations, and for crime prevention efforts, through user-friendly and
>> easy access to comprehensive information to facilitate timely action.
>>
>> 2. Keeping WHOIS quickly accessible to the public (including businesses
>> and other organizations) for legitimate purposes, including to combat fraud
>> and deceptive conduct, to combat infringement and misuse of intellectual
>> property, and to engage in due diligence for online transactions and
>> communications.
>>
>>
>>
>> In order to promote the public interest, and in response to the ICANN
>> CEO’s invitation to contribute questions pertaining to legal advice on the
>> interpretation and application of the GDPR,
>>
>> *c. the GAC also advises the ICANN Board to: *i. seek information from
>> its outside counsel tasked with providing guidance on GDPR issues that
>> addresses the following issues: 1. What are the options under the GDPR to
>> ensure the lawful availability of WHOIS/RDS data for consumer protection
>> and law enforcement activities In particular, are there changes to policy
>> or the legal framework that should be considered with a view to preserving
>> the functionality of the WHOIS to the greatest extent possible for these
>> purposes and others also recognized as legitimate? This question includes
>> tasks carried out in the public interest and tasks carried out for a
>> legitimate purpose, including preventing fraud and deceptive activities,
>> investigating and combatting crime, promoting and safeguarding public
>> safety, consumer protection, cyber-security etc.
>>
>> 2. What are the options under the GDPR to ensure the lawful availability
>> of WHOIS/RDS data for the public, including businesses and other
>> organizations? This question includes tasks carried out in the public
>> interest and tasks carried out for a legitimate purpose, including
>> preventing fraud and deceptive activities, investigating and combatting
>> crime as well as infringement and misuse of intellectual property,
>> promoting and safeguarding public safety, consumer protection,
>> cyber-security etc.
>>
>> Finally,
>>
>> *d. the GAC also advises the ICANN Board that: *i. it is urgent to
>> address these issues and that the GAC should be fully involved in the
>> design and implementation of any (including interim) solution and requests
>> that ICANN practice transparency vis-à-vis the multistakeholder community
>> in its GDPR activities.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RATIONALE
>>
>> This advice reflects the view of governments that the continued and
>> lawful availability of WHOIS/RDS data for consumer protection, intellectual
>> property rights protection and law enforcement activities is a vital public
>> concern and that ICANN should strive to explore all possible mechanisms
>> under the GDPR to ensure that this data remains available for legitimate
>> activities that protect the public and promote a safe, secure, and
>> trustworthy online environment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/8188/45126/images/57bdf38b7c3e5.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>> Vicky Sheckler
>>
>>
>>
>> |
>>
>> SVP, Deputy General Counsel
>>
>>
>> Recording Industry Association of America
>>
>>
>> e. vsheckler at riaa.com
>>
>> |
>>
>> w. riaa.com <http://www.riaa.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> t. 202.857.9603 <%28202%29%20857-9603>
>>
>> |
>>
>> s. 1025 F Street, NW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 10th Floor
>>
>> |
>>
>> Washington, DC 20004
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/8188/45126/icons/57bded46376ad.jpg]
>> <https://www.facebook.com/GoldandPlatinum>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/8188/45126/icons/57bded4643b92.jpg]
>> <https://www.instagram.com/riaa_awards/>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/8188/45126/icons/57bded465ca78.jpg]
>> <https://twitter.com/riaa>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/8188/45126/icons/57bded4674b6c.png]
>> <http://www.musicfuels.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image:
>> https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/8188/45126/images/57bdf3aa7bbbf.png]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing listgnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
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>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
>>
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
>>
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>
>
>
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
>
>
>
>
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