[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contactability

Wed Nov 29 23:40:20 UTC 2017

Thanks Chris for pointing that out.

Chuck

From: Chris Pelling [mailto:chris at netearth.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 9:01 AM
To: Chuck <consult at cgomes.com>
Cc: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contactability

Hi Chuck,

I actually think Volkers comment was probably more to do with :

>Am 28.11.2017 um 18:50 schrieb John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:

>The problem here is that you seem to assume it's just ok for you to impost costs on us and society because you >don't think the problems matter.

I read that and was going to reply but bit my tongue and kept quiet.  You could turn that comment around and simply say from a registrar point of view with regards extra work that will be needed :

The problem here is that you think it is ok for you to impose costs on registrars/registries and registrants because you are losing access to a service that up until now has been free and open.   (the cost here is in development time, and if a privacy service has to be used, costs of running that service)

There are 2 sides to every coin.

Kind regards,

Chris

  _____  

From: "Chuck" <consult at cgomes.com <mailto:consult at cgomes.com> >
To: "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net> >, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> >
Sent: Wednesday, 29 November, 2017 15:15:07
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contactability

Volker,

I am not sure why you think John's response is way out of line.  In my opinion he is simply explaining what he would do given certain circumstances.  Whether you agree with his actions or not, it seems helpful to me to understand the possible consequences of any decisions we as a WG make.  We can decide to live with those possible consequences but I think it is better to make any such decision with our eyes open to possible impacts.

Regardless, I don't think this thread needs to continue further.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 1:15 AM
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> 
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contactability

Whoa there! I am not going to answer this besides saying that I feel this response is way out of line.

Volker

Am 28.11.2017 um 18:50 schrieb John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
> The problem here is that you seem to assume it's just ok for you to 
> impost costs on us and society because you don't think the problems 
> matter. It isn't that some issues would be harder to solve, it's that 
> likely they won't get solved.
>
> But here is what I envision... when I see problems with domains that I 
> can't contact, I will automate reports to the registry and the ISP. 
> Once a certain threshhold of their non-responsiveness is achieved, I 
> won't just block the domains, I will block everything from that 
> registry or ISP whole and entire.
>
> It's been aptly said that these issues "aren't your job". Well, I'm 
> going to find the providers most in use by miscreants, and instead of 
> going after the miscreants, I'm just going to start assessing internet 
> death penalties because billions of dollars of fraud losses, human 
> trafficking, child sexual abuse and all the various genres of crime 
> that need responding to online will be handled, and if that means 
> taking the ban hammer to organizations that enable them, so be it.
>
> I'm happy to deal with the miscreants direct. But if I can't, I'm 
> going to deal with the organization that is:
>
> - In a direct financial relationship with the miscreant
>
> - Enabling their criminal activity
>
> - In the way of me identifying the miscreant
>
> That's the world you are creating.
>
>
> On 11/28/2017 11:43 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> re:hotbed I was rather intending to ask whether there is a direct 
>> correllation between TLDs with redacted whois and issues that go 
>> unresolved. So do you have more unresolved issues in .co.uk than in 
>> .com (if numbers are normalized for registered domain names).
>>
>> I am sure no one would consider blocking the entire mail traffic 
>> originating from the United Kingdom Top Level Domain just because you 
>> cannot resolve some issues in a few domains, correct?
>>
>> So if everyone followed their (or a similar) model, the internet 
>> would not break. Some issues would get harder to solve (or take 
>> longer). I am asking because that is what most likely will happen on 
>> May 25 or sooner.
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>> Am 28.11.2017 um 18:27 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
>>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 04:31:56PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
>>>> case of internet operability issues. While I appreciate that there 
>>>> can be issues that would necessitate the ability to quickly contact 
>>>> whoever can fix the issue, I wonder how this problem is solved in 
>>>> TLDs where whois is already redacted.
>>> It's not.  In that case, if I am the one who has this experience and 
>>> I can't reach the target, then the problem goes unresolved.  In mail 
>>> cases, as John suggests elsewhere in this thread, the answer is very 
>>> likely that mail is blocked.  People seem surprised these days that 
>>> mail is so fragile, but this sort of thing is part of the reason.
>>>
>>>> So how does it work there? Are these TLDs hotbeds of DNS issues and 
>>>> unresolved problems?
>>> I don't know what you mean by "hotbed", or whether that is intended 
>>> to be dismissive.  Some TLDs defintely have more DNS problems than 
>>> others.  Given how hard the DNS works to make connections happen 
>>> even when things are badly misconfigured, lots of stuff will work to 
>>> some extent even when it is badly configured.  But DNS operations 
>>> people trade stories about problems amongst themselves, after giving 
>>> up on sites because whois can't help and the mname in the SOA record 
>>> is broken.  I find this happens more often than you might expect.
>>>
>>> But yes, there are broken domains on the Internet.  I find it hard 
>>> to believe that would be even slightly remarkable.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> A
>>>
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