[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 29 August Meeting

Greg Aaron gca at icginc.com
Tue Sep 5 17:31:26 UTC 2017


Thank you, Marika.


From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 12:14 PM
To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>; Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 29 August Meeting

In relation to the registrar abuse telephone number, I have checked with our compliance team about the current requirements and they provided the following response:

Compliance has been requiring the registrar abuse phone number to be shown in the Whois and sends Compliance notices when it is not present. It also must be in the RFC format of +1.234567890 (with the plus sign, country code, period, and full number are shown, according to the relevant country).

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Marika

From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 08:27
To: Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com<mailto:gca at icginc.com>>, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 29 August Meeting


Like I said before: Just because something is optional that does not mean I will not do it; that is the meaning of the actual word.

Optional: Being able to do either do it or not.

Logically, I can do something without being required to do it.

And the language of the actual agreement is quite clear about what fields are required. Anything else is your assumption.

Best,

Volker

Am 05.09.2017 um 16:21 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The community relies on what the contracts say in black-and-white.  What is in them is what matters, not any behind-the-doors discussions.   One didn’t have to be in the negotiation room to know what the resulting contract says.   As an attorney you know these things.

And the text is clear in this case.  The RAA’s RDDS Specification has a list of fields in it.   It says that data must be published in those fields, with the exceptions marked clearly with footnotes.  Abuse Phone is one of the required pieces of data a registrar must publish.  And now registries must explicitly publish those phone numbers as well, per the new Consensus Policy. The Consensus Policy was designed in part to carry this registrar requirement over to the registries to provide uniformity of output.

If publishing the Abuse phone number creates a burden as you have claimed, then why does Key-Systems publish it?   If you think it is optional, then logically you should  stop publishing the Abuse phone number.  Will you stop publishing it?

All best,
--Greg


From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 9:43 AM
To: Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com><mailto:gca at icginc.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 29 August Meeting


Ah, the old "You are doing it, so it must be required"-argument. Just because we do something does not mean we are not doing it by choice.

The RDDS Specification merely signifies the format that the whois output must have, not what must be contained in it. After all, we cannot put "EXAMPLE REGISTRANT" in that field. The obligation how the fields must be filled derives from the language in the RAA, which does not require us to have a general access telephone number for abuse.

Let me remind you that I was in the room when this language was negotiated ad infinitum, so I do know what we agreed to and what we did not. I do not remember seeing you there.

Best,

Volker

PS: If you really hold the opinion that a general access abuse contact is mandatory, please show me the RAA requirement that states that it is mandatory. There isn't one. Everything else is merely your interpretation.

Am 05.09.2017 um 15:07 schrieb Greg Aaron:
Volker stated below that the registrar Abuse phone number (the number itself)  is currently optional for registrars to provide, and therefore optional to publish.  That is clearly incorrect.


  1.  The 2013 RAA says that registrars are REQUIRED to publish the registrar Abuse email and the Abuse phone number – not just the field names but also the data itself -- in output.  The RAA’s RDDS Specification 1.4 clearly states which data is optional to publish, and those two fields are not marked as optional.   Pointing to 3.18.1 as evidence that the Abuse Phone is optional but not mentioning the requirement of RDDS Specification 1.4 is … a baffling argument.
  2.  The new Consensus Policy says that registries are REQUIRED to publish the Registrar Abuse Email and Abuse Phone number, MUST do it in certain well-known formats, and MUST do it in a certain location in the output.   Registrars MUST provide the abuse email address and the phone number to the registries, who are required to collect it and publish it.

I think Volker would like to _change_ the RAA and the Consensus Policy so that Abuse Phone will be optional for registrars to provide, and therefore optional for display.  That is his prerogative to argue, but let us be clear --  Abuse Phone is currently mandatory to publish in registrar and registry output, and the registrar must provide it to registries.

#1 above is why Volker’s company publishes the Abuse contact phone number in its output:
Domain Name: key-systems.net
Registry Domain ID: 30428855_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.rrpproxy.net
Registrar URL: http://www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=dc6MBmU4xTBl71HjtNBKZ-PDqlGTYovsl9WNlSRQCmE&e=>
Updated Date: 2017-01-24T10:23:00.0Z
Creation Date: 2000-06-29T07:04:01.0Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2023-06-29T07:04:01.0Z
Registrar: Key-Systems GmbH
Registrar IANA ID: 269
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse at key-systems.net<mailto:abuse at key-systems.net>
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +49.68949396850

--Greg


From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 10:28 AM
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 29 August Meeting


Hi all,

going back to the new policy, it actually merely specifies where existing data fields must be placed, it does not create an obligation to fill optional fields though as the pühone number was not formally required. As such, the provision of data for the registrar abuse phone was and still is completely voluntary, but if it is provided, it must be placed where this new policy states. Compare also section 3.18.1 of the 2013 RAA which only requires the creation of an abuse email contact for general use. I therefore propose that our agreement be rephrased to be compatible with the RAA:

RDS MUST support email and phone
Registrars MUST provide email
Registrars MAY provide phone

(And potentially alternatives could be included too. If a registrar accepts complaints by smoke signals, why not have a field for "other abuse contacts"?)

Based on this, we may also want to consider additional fields for the RDS however that currently are not in whois, .e.g. the LEA abuse contacts. with the RDS, it may make sense to include them (with access limited only to LEAs of the registrars' jurisdiction).

Best,

Volker

Am 30.08.2017 um 15:22 schrieb Greg Aaron:
The first question of this poll asks whether Reseller Name must be supported by the RDS, and whether it MUST or MAY be provided for inclusion in the RDS by Registrars.

This issue was decided by the Registry Registration Data Directory Services Consistent Labeling and Display Policy, a Consensus Policy that went into effect 1 August 2017.  It says: “In responses to domain name object queries the following fields are considered optional … Reseller.”   https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/rdds-labeling-policy-2017-02-01-en[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_pages_rdds-2Dlabeling-2Dpolicy-2D2017-2D02-2D01-2Den&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=2GtTYas4fSGe_jaaW5_u15pfqpDsu8fG27VIT4-QpO8&e=>   The policy says that the system must support this field, it’s optional for registrars to fill in that field, and the field is displayed in output if the registrar provided the data.

The WG is accepting the results of that Consensus Policy regarding Registrar Abuse contacts.  So I suggest it also follow what that that same Consensus Policy says about for Reseller Name.

Thanks,
--Greg



**********************************
Greg Aaron
Vice-President, Product Management
iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
mobile: +1.215.858.2257
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From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Phifer
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 12:25 AM
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 29 August Meeting
Importance: High

Dear all,

In follow-up to this week’s WG meeting, all RDS PDP WG Members are encouraged to participate in the following poll:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DKQTQHP[surveymonkey.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.surveymonkey.com_r_DKQTQHP&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=h0eoOXdmtDOmNlQQno1MQ3sWtiWdhm1WyeDvOzanJJk&e=>

Responses should be submitted through the above URL. For offline reference, a PDF of poll questions can also be found at:

https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/66086750/Poll-from-29AugustCall.pdf[community.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_66086750_Poll-2Dfrom-2D29AugustCall.pdf&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=lacm-5fmRu2UHkFTSS2Na0ber-I0fXpPJdUFlp0re44&e=>

This poll will close at COB Saturday 2 September.  Poll results will be discussed in our 5 September WG meeting.

Please note that you must be a WG Member to participate in polls. If you are a WG Observer wishing to participate in polls, you must first contact gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> to upgrade to WG Member.

Regards,
Lisa




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Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>



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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin

Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534



Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=v55qKKWpf4csi2zVeBKi0QmtoT3wQfqB8qGJ-lHhOtk&e=>



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--------------------------------------------



Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Best regards,



Volker A. Greimann

- legal department -



Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>



Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=dc6MBmU4xTBl71HjtNBKZ-PDqlGTYovsl9WNlSRQCmE&e=> / www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.RRPproxy.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=G8istna_k-cLQIULPGtzJs0PMuatC3IR1LmIPXb4gvY&e=>

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CEO: Alexander Siffrin

Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534



Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=v55qKKWpf4csi2zVeBKi0QmtoT3wQfqB8qGJ-lHhOtk&e=>



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--

Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen,



Volker A. Greimann

- Rechtsabteilung -



Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>



Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=dc6MBmU4xTBl71HjtNBKZ-PDqlGTYovsl9WNlSRQCmE&e=> / www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.RRPproxy.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=G8istna_k-cLQIULPGtzJs0PMuatC3IR1LmIPXb4gvY&e=>

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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:

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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin

Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534



Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=v55qKKWpf4csi2zVeBKi0QmtoT3wQfqB8qGJ-lHhOtk&e=>



Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.



--------------------------------------------



Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Best regards,



Volker A. Greimann

- legal department -



Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>



Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=dc6MBmU4xTBl71HjtNBKZ-PDqlGTYovsl9WNlSRQCmE&e=> / www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.RRPproxy.net&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=G8istna_k-cLQIULPGtzJs0PMuatC3IR1LmIPXb4gvY&e=>

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CEO: Alexander Siffrin

Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534



Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMD-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=psG0QDzyWOo9P1I3BdeV_iNTNdtPDAI7U7xss6H_RfM&s=v55qKKWpf4csi2zVeBKi0QmtoT3wQfqB8qGJ-lHhOtk&e=>



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