[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners

Fri Sep 22 23:55:26 UTC 2017

I actually think everyone is correct here, and if you all agree with me 
then I will go apply for a job at the UN, they seem to need help.

1.  First, I am not sure exactly what Fab was quoting me on, but I think 
we need to have some idea what ICANN is saying to the DPAs.  As 
indicated, there is a Board member and ICANN VP travelling to Hong Kong, 
to be on a panel with the EDPS and the UN special rapporteur at a 
conference of the world data commissioners last week in 
September....surely we might get a little look at their speeches to 
inform ourselves?  I have read Goran's letter to Buttarelli and am still 
wondering what that is about.....unless it is to follow up on meetings 
which we have not heard about. So all I was asking for was a wee bit 
more transparency as to what is going on.  Unfortunately CHuck was 
cutting out in his response, but I gather he was not wiser than I as to 
what is going on.  Perhaps Marika could inquire and get back to us?

2.  We in the GNSO Council have been told there will be a meeting in 
Brussels of a select few, to talk to the DPAs, in early October.  Still 
no date.  I don't find that acceptable, and again I think we have a 
right to know what is being said/negotiated.  Naturally I would like to 
be there as the NCSG rep, given the amount of research I have done on 
this issue, but if we don't find out soon it will have to be somebody else.

3.  This PDP should continue along its course, but hopefully soon, a 
little better informed by the legal analysis which the leadership team 
has received.  That ought to speed up our process, in my view.

4.  While I am of the view that the RAA and the Registry contracts are 
full of policy issues that deserve attention, I do agree with Volker 
that interpreting the expression "compliance with local law" or its 
variants in the RAA ought to be left up to them.  And that, as you all 
know by now, in my opinion means a much more private WHOIS, fewer 
international data transfers, and greater authentication of third party 
data recipients.  The fact that we have been arguing about these very 
issues since 1998 continues to stun and fascinate me.

5.  If anyone is meeting with the Easter Bunny, please bring chocolate 
to Abu. Looks like it is going to be a strenuous meeting.  Lindt will be 
fine.

cheers Stephanie

On 2017-09-22 12:27, Volker Greimann wrote:
>
> The community does not have any active role to play when it comes to 
> the interpretation and enforcement of ICANN contracts and 
> international law. This is an issue that contracted parties will have 
> to work out with ICANN. To the contrary, I find it very, very 
> disturbing that certain interest groups believe they have a role to 
> play here.
>
> Once the fallout becomes cleared and it has been determined which 
> policies and obligations are problematic, the comunity comes back in 
> and can start working on replacement policies. GDPR will have a 
> profound impact on RDS, as current practices simply do not work 
> anymore. While some tout consent as the solve-all, be reminded that 
> consent must be free, informed, and can be revoked at any time, 
> without consequence to the service being provided.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 22.09.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
>>
>> Hi Fab,
>>
>> Thanks for your insights into this.  You raise a really interesting 
>> and important point.  I tend to agree with you that the lack of 
>> community engagement in the GDPR-preparedness discussions is very 
>> very disturbing.  I’m not sure I agree that it should be conflated 
>> with the RDS PDP.  I see the GDPR discussions as related to Whois “as 
>> is” if you will. I see the RDS group as dealing with the future of 
>> Whois, that is creating an “ideal” (or as ideal as possible 
>> considering we govern  by committee) system.   If anything, I think 
>> RDS should suspend its work until we understand more fully the 
>> implications of the GDPR on Whois…. but I don’t think the RDS 
>> discussions have a place in the GDPR discussions.
>>
>> That said, I do think we have a ton of experts in this group, and we 
>> should probably all be participating in whatever capacity we can in 
>> both discussions.
>>
>> I hope that makes sense and that I’m appropriately understanding what 
>> your concerns are.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Kiran
>>
>> *Kiran Malancharuvil*
>>
>> Policy
>>
>> MarkMonitor
>>
>> 415.222.8318 (t)
>>
>> 415.419.9138 (m)
>>
>> www.markmonitor.com <http://www.markmonitor.com/>
>>
>> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Vayra, 
>> Fabricio (Perkins Coie)
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM
>> *To:* Andrew Sullivan <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with 
>> Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>
>> Appreciate this feedback, Andrew. Simply put, my concern is that 
>> these independent and misinformed conversations will result in bad 
>> decision making that will run counter to our efforts here in this 
>> duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN 
>> processes for developing policy -- if not render them useless 
>> altogether.  Which in turn highlights my earlier comment that this 
>> side-show effort from ICANN runs counter to the bottom up / standard 
>> ICANN processes for developing policy.
>>
>> Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a molehill, but Stephanie 
>> echoing these concerns on the last call encouraged me to reach out to 
>> my fellow WG members to see if others share the concern and wanted to 
>> act on it.
>>
>> Others?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan
>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM
>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data 
>> Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM +0000, Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins 
>> Coie) wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I couldn’t agree more with Stephanie and find it incredible that 
>> ICANN, despite our ongoing efforts and the plethora of published 
>> community concerns, are continuing with the approach of rushing to 
>> discussions with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners 
>> “half-cocked.”  Putting aside the apparent widely shared view that 
>> this approach is misinformed and dangerous, it’s simply redundant of 
>> and does not take advantage of our work within this PDP process  -- 
>> one could even say that it runs counter to the bottom up and 
>> community led initiative on RDS/WHOIS.
>>
>> >
>>
>> I don't understand what the problem is supposed to be.  We are a
>>
>> duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN processes
>>
>> for developing policy.  If other parts of ICANN want to talk to data
>>
>> protection and privacy commissioners, or activists in favour of
>>
>> publishing all personal data available in the universe, or privacy
>>
>> activists who think the DNS should be closed in favour of onion
>>
>> routing, or the committee of the Present King of France and the Easter
>>
>> Bunny, why should we care?  In the event (for which I have diminshing
>>
>> hope) that we publish a report that is actionable by the GNSO, the
>>
>> ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will grind forward no matter what
>>
>> meetings people have had.
>>
>> We can best contribute to that end, in my opinion, by focussing on
>>
>> getting done the work that we are supposed to be doing, rather than
>>
>> worrying about all the other things other people might be doing.  By
>>
>> concentrating on this and making some progress, we might even reduce
>>
>> the temptation of others to second guess this process.  At the rate we
>>
>> are currently moving, we appear to be destined to deliver something
>>
>> right after heat death of the universe, and I suggest that that pace
>>
>> is partly because there is no issue on which people are willing to
>>
>> focus, come to a clear conclusion, and then let that conclusion stand.
>>
>> I therefore urge that we focus on our task and not make our job harder
>>
>> than it already is by attending to outside distractions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> A
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Andrew Sullivan
>>
>> ajs at anvilwalrusden.com <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>
> -- 
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
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