[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Recordings, attendance & AC Chat from Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call on Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:00 UTC

Tue Sep 26 18:53:06 UTC 2017

Dear All,

Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email, and the Adobe Connect chat, MP3 & Adobe Connect recordings below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Tuesday, 26 September 2017 at 16:00 UTC.

MP3:   http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-26sep17-en.mp3

AC recording:  https://participate.icann.org/p35s9vi2lbl/

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=GJMkY4Fbi9sry9Z53DaSWJm-mHxMfFxg7MEVDf2JU90&s=FI3QJYH6DWWCDQir6NDMSjPkzdqfTTUmf9Ua-AYpc14&e=>

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/

Wiki agenda page:  https://community.icann.org/x/amfwAw

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Michelle

———————————————

AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG Tuesday, 26 September 2017

  Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group call on Tuesday, 26 September 2017 at 16:00 UTC.
  Michelle DeSmyter:Agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_amfwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=USt7PL4OEQnV6pTBWWk1aCJRHcOPgCzNoZRmhi5jvQc&e=
  Herb Waye Ombuds:greetings everyone
  Ayden Férdeline:Hi Herb, hi all
  Chuck Gomes:Hello to all.  I am back in my home office after nearly walks away.
  Chuck Gomes:Let me try that again.  Back in my home office after nearly four weeks away.
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:hi all
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:glad to see the common names
  andrew sullivan:@ Chuck I am sure everyone involved in this has nearly walked away once ;-)
  Lisa Phifer:Original Registration Date proposal: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_66086756_Volunteer-2520Team-2520on-2520Action-2520Item-2520regarding-2520Original-2520Registration-2520Date-2520-2D-252018-2520Sep-2520Update.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=rqV2U9EKEBZCqBvkQUJu9OvbUh_fP1nPPr_aI7KIsU0&e=
  Alan Greenberg:Sorry, last meeting ran late.
  andrew sullivan:I saw nobody argue in favour of this thing.  I think it's dead
  Sara Bockey:agree it should be dropped
  Michele Neylon:Can we let it die?
  Michele Neylon:flogging horses is cruelty to animals :)
  Lisa Phifer:Proposed WG Agreement: There is no requirement for the Original Registration Date as proposed by the EWG Final Report.
  andrew sullivan:I'm good with that
  Volker Greimann:i liked this too. we had a very constructive discourse...
  Lisa Phifer:Displayed results: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_66086762_AnnotatedResults-2DPoll-2Dfrom-2D20SeptCall.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=Ko-A1HmrcV4FGeMsoG8cHjQj_76c6zMk3Yyucvl-biY&e=
  andrew sullivan:I'm glad we explored the idea, we laid out the arguments, and now we're done with it.  Let's do that again! :-)
  Lisa Phifer:WG Agreement (from last week's poll Q2): There must be at least one purpose for collecting each data element in the MPDS, and that purpose must be sufficient for making that data element public.
  andrew sullivan:The ones in purple are actually not answering the question, note
  andrew sullivan:for instance, purposes 5-13 don't have to guide the MPDS at all if another one establishes a reason to collect
  Alex Deacon:just joining-apologies for being late.....
  Lisa Phifer:@Andrew - purple (blue on my screen) suggest deleting purposes for collection of MPDS
  andrew sullivan:(indeed, if purpose 46 were "and purple elephants want this", and yet there are no purple elephants, it doesn't matter)
  andrew sullivan:@Lisa, I know, but they're not answering the question :)
  Lisa Phifer:Legal Analysis Memo prepared by WSGR to be posted after call at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_J1zwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=080ofXO14i2bjuSz7F9urmM4eScZTdKHlnuEjaorPzA&e=
  Ayden Férdeline:Very much looking forward to reading the memo
  Lisa Phifer:Excerpts Chuck is describing will also be posted at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_J1zwAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=080ofXO14i2bjuSz7F9urmM4eScZTdKHlnuEjaorPzA&e=
  Marika Konings:As noted, the memorandum as displayed on the screen will be distributed immediately following this meeting to the mailing list.
  Lisa Phifer:The ICANN58 questions asked and the senior data privacy expert answers are already posted at that same link
  Volker Greimann:hehe, adobe lets you download the document ;-)
  Marika Konings:you can get a head start Volker ;-)
  Volker Greimann:already did!
  Ayden Férdeline:great memo. pg 14 "From the above, it can be seen that asking for consent would not be simple, would not solve all data protection issues, and would pose a number of organizational challenges." +1
  Marika Konings:Note that a session on GDPR is planned for ICANN60 although I am not sure whether it is already known what the meeting will focus on (but presumably it will include an update on all ongoing activities?)
  Stephanie Perrin:May I ask why the particular legal firm was chosen?
  Michael Palage:SO Greg you think ICANN is going to provide legal advice on how to comply
  Michael Hammer:Does ICANN have a DPO?
  Michele Neylon:Michael - they do *now*
  Marika Konings:@Michael - yes, Dan Halloran was recently appointed in that role
  Michele Neylon:they didn't until about 2 months or so ago
  Michael Hammer:So would I be correct to assume that ICANN hasn't completed a DPIA?
  Marika Konings:@Michael - see https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_news_blog_introducing-2Dicann-2Ds-2Dchief-2Ddata-2Dprotection-2Dofficer-2Dcdpo&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=PvWPUptx7SoTGHI8roVX8mOZuEVnBcKLL5cVQZHu1-g&e=  for further information on his role.
  Greg Aaron:ICANN will perhaps offer contractual waivers.  lLet's put it that way.
  Alex Deacon:+1 Alan.  seperate but releated problems.
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:that is mostly true.... @ alan very true as Afrinic under IANA is starting to look at the whois. Nothing came from ICANN by any means...we are discussing what we need to do with the RIR whois
  Alan Greenberg:One can dream that proportionality will allow data commissioners to just allow WHOIS as it is today. BUt if that does not happen, we need to decide what will work.
  Michele Neylon:ICANN ignored everything up until a couple of months ago
  Ayden Férdeline:+1 Susan.
  Michael Hammer:That is not uncommon Michele.
  Ayden Férdeline:Incidentally the bio of ICANN's new DPO does not suggest he has a background in data protection or privacy.
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:he doesnt seem to have any idea unfortunately
  andrew sullivan:I dearly hope that this does not come to be a discussion of how ICANN-the-organization has failed in various ways to satisfy ICANN-the-community in a number of dimensions.  Much of this discussion, I willl note, happened at boring length during the IANA changes.
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:sorry to say that
  andrew sullivan:It is unfortunate, but here we are, and I don't see why we should care what the shortcomings of the organization have been in respect of previous policies
  andrew sullivan:let's make new policy that makes things better
  Volker Greimann:Contracted parties are favored? Never noticed that. Feels like the opposite
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:+1 susan
  Alex Deacon:+1 Susan....
  Fabricio Vayra:+1 Susan
  Herb Waye Ombuds:Sorry folks, I have to run for another committment, have a great day all...
  Vicky Sheckler:+1 susan
  Michael Hammer: - Alan, I don't think dreaming is the right approach. It is up to ICANN, whether as an organization (top down) or through working groups (bottom up) to make the case as to why WHOIS, to whatever extent data elements are made public, should fall under proportionality.
  Alan Greenberg:@Michael, and I think that is exactly what theu are hoping to do.
  Stephanie Perrin:I was merely attempting to point out risk.
  Stephanie Perrin:I have been pointing out that binding corporate rules would have been a good option.  I still believe it can be done, supplemented by thorough privacy impact assessments.
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:its not only the gdpr, south africa is enacting POPI and i know Mauritius we are fast tracking to align to gdpr and be enacted by Jan 2018
  Susan Kawaguchi:@ Alan, sorry do not agree with you
  andrew sullivan:I'm taking myself out of queue because I'd just be piling on and we have other work to do :)
  Lisa Phifer:@Kris, we have included South Africa's data protection law in this WG's inventory of inputs and possible requirements list, which someday we'll get back to deliberating on...
  Chuck Gomes:Thanks Andrew
  Michael Palage:Now available online - https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_66083879_WSGR-2520memorandum-2520to-2520RDS-2520PDP-2520WG-2520-2D-2520FINAL-2520-2D-252025-2520September-25202017.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1506443238731-26api-3Dv2&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=RBXqnO1D2blpilxKprGntMZWo7Qm0rNVGE3SmXcR-Wo&e=
  andrew sullivan:But AFAICT, given the ICANN policy making stuff, suppose that whois rules were changed _tomorrow_ and came into effect.  IMO that would have exactly no consequence for us
  andrew sullivan:because we are in a position to make a new policy & replace whatever change happens tomorrow.  That's what we're supposed to be doing, not worrying about all this other stuff
  Marika Konings:@Greg - those were submitted to the effort
  Ayden Férdeline:ICANN org did open use cases up to public comment, for anyone to submit use cases.
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:@lisa : thanks
  andrew sullivan:Also, aren't we all members of the community?  WTH that ICANN has to "ask us" for stuff?
  Alan Greenberg:A at Greg. Anyone of us who was consulted could have pointed to the use cases we develioped, just as they used the EWG work.
  Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ greg re: we should be prepared for the likely need for further legal advice as we move forward with RDS
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:@stephanie +1
  Alan Greenberg:Stephanie, can you (offline) define what you mean by binding coporate rules?
  Michele Neylon:Alan https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Binding-5Fcorporate-5Frules&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=2RMrd7NaanYJj8MqdLAsdy94x43GgU0aBy571ogqh9M&s=wEkShqs6UxcG7Yr7KSFwARyGgVdJ7beVzw6YDxjNp78&e=
  Alex Deacon:FWIW IPC included several EWG use cases in its use case document submitted to the ad-hoc WG on GDPR....
  Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, don't BCRs change with GDPR and Privacy Shield?
  andrew sullivan:If we're going to keep getting legal advice, could we also get some technical advice too?  We seem not to be willing to listen to that internally all the time either ;-)
  Stephanie Perrin:I must correct myself, the GDPR had been tabled in 2012, not passed at the time we got the legal advice.  I suppose there may have been a faint hope in some quarters that it would not pass.
  Lisa Phifer:Note that our charter anticipates getting legal advice on proposed requirements in phase 1, then proposed policy in phase 2/3. There is also in our charter examining technical feasibility of proposed policies in phase 3 (which may cause phase 2 proposed policies to be revisited)
  Stephanie Perrin:yes Lisa they do change but still possible, we need legal advice on how to implement them in the new environment.  A lot of work has gone into contractual clauses and BCRS.
  Lisa Phifer:Action for all WG members to participate in one-question poll on proposed WG agreement (Original Registraiton Date)
  Sara Bockey:thanks all
  Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks all
  Nathalie Coupet:Bye
  andrew sullivan:thanks everyone
  Ayden Férdeline:thanks all
  Stephanie Perrin:PRivacy Shield only covers US, there are 120 countries witt DP law.  BCRs help with the global problem
  Krishna Seeburn - Kris:thanks all

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