[gnso-review-dt] MP3 recording GNSO Review Working Party teleconference 16th September 2015 14:00UTC
Nathalie Peregrine
nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Wed Sep 16 19:17:33 UTC 2015
Dear All,
Please find the MP3 recording of the GNSO Review Working Party teleconference held on Wednesday, 16 September 2015 at 14:00 UTC: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-review-16sep15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03ZqpsvX-2FjWcml3uVD44bGMje4TTanBpwN7aciQ0kuQnhlO9dg-3D-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzpJ0hHWSwmLAQWyUKNjD8rHUI4jQ8V1XO4-2FOzyUaS26MZLJbswUFT3DzlAsEUwlYuQPdrnEqC-2BinVM1YrUCIZ8wOqW55j9QTlSk22LyONtR4BMRioyetdKHlvupidljmSG8leKw-2BmukQWk-2FbBig5OlAyDCbaEEDb2bwLt53wM7Q7-2B-2BmbBl8tuKB-2BOrUlweZnSxVxLXND9odpl0apPByalMnXjNVK-2F16PPllRYBumP2dXYzPEp6-2BoI-2BvQeDaL-2F-2B4u4qnRXRFHuINYrPgWFvBcVEkkRv8tnXetzkYIuCOs-2Bryo>
On page:
<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar>http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#s<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep >ep<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep > <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep >
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/
Attendees:
Jennifer Wolfe
Klaus Stoll
Chuck Gomes
Avri Doria
Bill Drake
Rafik Dammak
Arun Sukumar
Robin Gross
Edward Morris
Osvaldo Novoa
Stefania Milan
Observer: Amr Elsadr
Apologies:
none
Guest Speakers:
Richard Westlake
Colin Jackson
ICANN Staff:
Mary Wong
Marika Konings
Lars Hoffman
Larisa Gurnick
Charla Shambley
Karen Mulberry
Nathalie Peregrine
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Nathalie
Adobe Chat transcript:
Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, Welcome to the GNSO Review Working Party on the 16 September 2015
Amr Elsadr:Hi..., I am no longer a member of the working party. I hope it's alright that I am participating in today's call.
Jen Wolfe:Yes, of course you are welcome to join!
Amr Elsadr:Thanks Jen.
Chuck Gomes:Sorry I am late. Connectivity problems.
Nathalie Peregrine:Stefania Milan has joined he call
Chuck Gomes:Should we hold our questions until later?
Chuck Gomes:I have a question re. Rec. 23
Jen Wolfe:Let's hold questions until Richard finishes his presentation and then we can start the questions.
Avri Doria:Would RySG Interenst Groups be counted as Cs?
Avri Doria:Or is 23 only aimed solely at the NCSG?
Larisa Gurnick:The document Richard is referencing will be available for display and will be posted on the wiki shortly.
Bill Drake:much of this content comes out of the blue
Robin Gross:not exactly a bottom-up process at work here.
Bill Drake:We never heard of it
Avri Doria:a parting 'surprise'
Amr Elsadr:[QUESTION] Apart from rec #23, why wasn't the WP involved in reviewing any of the public comments? Wouldn't have been helpful for Westlake to have representatives of the community being involved in the public comment review, similar to GNSO working groups?
Avri Doria:So Westlake is suggesting we unwind the last SG reforms.
Bill Drake:inter alia
Chuck Gomes:It seems so Avri.
Avri Doria:They CSG refused to accept the last reform. I guess they picked correctly?
Avri Doria:NCSg must learn from the CSG.
Larisa Gurnick:A GNSO Review Working Party meeting originally scheduled for July and then rescheduled for early August was cancelled due to low participation.
Bill Drake:apparently we must adopt the CSG model
Avri Doria:or we musr follw their example and refuse
Avri Doria:.
Bill Drake:and stop pretending there is something called civil society in ICANN
Amr Elsadr:@Avri: Is it an option for the NCSG to not accept the review? Last time, the review was initiated by the GNSO. Not so this time, correct?
Robin Gross:This is shockingly wrong.
Avri Doria:hey the CSG refused last time. And it worked for them.
Robin Gross:Westlake seems to fundamentally misunderstand the GNSO model. That's a big problem.
Bill Drake:and history
Bill Drake:reality
Bill Drake:CS
Avri Doria:hey if i was a subtype or Registry, i would demand a constituency now.
Arun Sukumar:Hi, it's concerning that terms like "cultural diversity" have been so loosely applied to justify Rec #23 - and this is from someone who cannot agree more on the importance of regiona/geo diversity
Nathalie Peregrine:Osvaldo Novoa has joined the call
Amr Elsadr:Completely agree with Chuck, and this could have not been "missed" if the WP members were involved in the public comments review.
Bill Drake:that is a fundamentally flawed argument
Robin Gross:The breakdown in the non-contracted parties house is EQUAL seats to the commercial and non-commercial stakeholders. It is NOT about constituencies. Westlake has failed to understand this key point.
Bill Drake:people don't join a constituency because it has Council seats
Avri Doria:so many thing that might infringe the politeness rule are on the tip of my fingers.
Avri Doria:Bill, some do. for that and for travel support.
Bill Drake:well maybe. not us
Amr Elsadr:@Chuck: +1
Robin Gross:Agree with Chuck.
Robin Gross:what is the point in engaging with actual stakeholders, if Westlake is unwilling to learn about its mistakes? What are we here for?
Bill Drake:total misconstruction
Avri Doria:In the NCSG, getting seats requires running for elections, and the 'other C' did not put up any candidates. that is one way to not end up with seats.
Nathalie Peregrine:Klaus Stoll has joined the call
Klaus Stoll:Sorry to be so late. technical problems.
Chuck Gomes:How would Council seats be allocated equally by constituency?
Avri Doria:everytime a new constituency is formed you subdivide the votes n-ways.
Amr Elsadr:Sure.
Robin Gross:Thanks, Bill, for expressing many of our frustrations with this sandbagging.
Avri Doria:it this is accepted, i will go into the business of helping people start constituencies. the more the merrier.
Chuck Gomes:@ Richard: What is equal footing?
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Factual error number 1: "board agreed, based upon evidence from the NCSG". The Board conducted an independent evaluation of the Cyber Cafe application. Please cite your fact the advice was based upon NCSG advice.
Avri Doria:we need 7 constituencies
Robin Gross:NCSG operates as a stakeholder group. That is different than CSG, which is the constituency model. Westlake needs to understand this key issue.
Bill Drake:let's break up NCUC into 15 constituencies and demand Council seats for each
Avri Doria:and the last review mandated stakeholder groups. we complied.
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Factual error number 2: "a former Chair and current NCSG Executiv Committee member". This refers to Milton Mueller, who is an EX OFFICIO participant of the NCUC EC. He is not a voting member of the EC.
Robin Gross:The logic of Westlake's argument would lead to breaking NCUC into 15 constituencies to demand seats, indeed. It is so NOT THOUGHT THROUGH....
Avri Doria:2.5 people per seat?
Bill Drake:Even the SIC understood the problem in 2011, that's why they didn't do it
Avri Doria:it is a pity, becasue it colors some of the good recommendations.
Bill Drake:Reality doesn't matter Amr
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Factual error number 3: "in practice, the NCUC's view has largely won out". THere is no NCUC view on constituency vs. stakeholder group powers.. There is a diversity of views within the NCUC. I , for example, are far more Constituency friendly than the unelected ex-officio cited in the study.
Avri Doria:and in the NCSG election none of the other constituency even pput up candidates. how do they expect to get elected.
Chuck Gomes:@ Jenn: We as a working team may want to develop a statement to the SIC regarding Rec. 23.
Robin Gross:This is an example of how ICANN staff uses independent contractors to do its dirty work (and bypas a bottom-up process).
Jen Wolfe:Agree, that's what we can discuss after we finish up on this point.
Avri Doria:and we should carefully review aall the other recommendations for other fault lines.
Bill Drake:@Chuck I believe a team statement would be in order
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Factual error number 4: "Only one NPOC member has ever held a position on the GNSO Council". Not true. Carlos Guttierez (2015-2016) and Klaus Stoll (2013-2014) are both GNSO Councilors that are NPOC members.
Bill Drake:Facts smacts
Amr Elsadr:Constituency members vote along with everybody else. Saying that constituencies don't have a voice is not accurate.
Chuck Gomes:I think we should be cautious about blaming staff for this outcome. If that indeed happened that would be bad but we don't know that that happened.
Bill Drake:presumably since Council seats drives membership growth then there should have been growth spurts in the period of those two Councilors
Avri Doria:Carlos is a NCA, though member of NPOC, he was not elected by NCSG.
Avri Doria:Klaus was the only NPOC who ran and got a seat. i think he was the one one who ran.
Amr Elsadr:Klaus ran, but was ultimately appointed by the NCSG PC.
Avri Doria:... the only one to run ..
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):True Avri but Westlake states that only one NPOC member has ever served on Council. THat simply is incorrect.
Robin Gross:Question: How much are these recommendations costing ICANN (Internet users)?
Amr Elsadr:Other NPOC members who served on the council include Carlos, Debbie and Amber.
Chuck Gomes:Rec. 23 is the only rec. I had a significant concern with.
Avri Doria:true. just trying to be precise with the facts. Something I think is useful in this sort of review.
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):@Robin. I asked for ICANN to release the contract. THey released small portions but would not divulge anything in terms of cost.
Amr Elsadr:Debbie and Amber were (if I am not mistaken) appointed by the board.
Amr Elsadr:Carlos appointed by the NomCom.
Bill Drake:there is no traffic on their mail list, perhaps because there are no members to send it
Chuck Gomes:Any statement that the Working Party develops should be submitted to the OEC before 28 Sep.
Amr Elsadr:Fully agree with Rafik.
Bill Drake:do I really have to learn to say OEC instead of SIC?
Amr Elsadr:@Chuck: Would a statement by the WP be a sort of review and comment on the Westlake report? Can the WP pull this off on such short notice?
Chuck Gomes:@ Bill: I had to think twice before figuring out what OEC was.
Avri Doria:the committee formerly know as SIC
Amr Elsadr:"the committee formerly know as SIC". I like that. :)
Bill Drake:Organizational Effectiveness on parade here
Bill Drake:this is just wrong
Avri Doria:tis was less a GNSO review that a NCSG review
Arun Sukumar:Well said, Rafik. I'm a new entrant to NCSG, and geographical diversity in ICANN is a big concern, but the sheer number of participants in the NCSG elections from all parts of the world was overwhelming.
Bill Drake:please look at the website and see who are members are
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):NCUC has 1) more and 2) larger members than NPOC.
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):From the Heritage Foundation to the ACLU to EFF...
Avri Doria:it is too late. they are done. time for us to figure out how to repsond.
Bill Drake:some are small, some are large, we explained this in our last 10 page corrective letter
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Many NPOC organizations exist ONLY on paper.
Bill Drake:utter nonsense
Arun Sukumar:@richard: this is a hypothesis right? there is a weighted voting system
Klaus Stoll 2:Please let me know which! I resent rumors without facts.
Robin Gross:Westlake just doesn't understand how things work. This is a competency problem.
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):NCUC member the American Civil Liberties Union has 565,000 members. One NCUC member.
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Will do Klaus.
Bill Drake:they don't count Ed
Klaus Stoll 2:Thanks!
Bill Drake:EFF doesn't count
Bill Drake:CDT doesnt count
Bill Drake:and so on
Robin Gross:APC is pretty big. Library of Alexandria is pretty big. RedCross is in NCUC too. What does it take for Westlake to have a revised view?
Edward Morris (GNSO Council / NCSG):Heritage?
Robin Gross:Westlake has no criteria. This is purely subjective nonsense.
Chuck Gomes:I think we need a Working Party call as soon as possible to work on a plan to develop a response to the Recs.
Chuck Gomes:In my opinion, it would be sufficient to focus on Rec. 23.
Avri Doria:btw, another NCUC memebr APC, the organization I am representing is composed of 46 other grassroot organizations.
Bill Drake:+1 Chuck just what we all need right now
Bill Drake:Avri for that to matter one would have to know something about the groups being characterized
Bill Drake:time no, commitment yes
Chuck Gomes:Well said Bill. :)
Rafik:yes
Bill Drake:thank you Jen for managing this well
Robin Gross:What is the cost of these recommendations? Or is that a secret?
Bill Drake:it is a secret Robin
Amr Elsadr:@Bill: +1. Thanks Jen, and appreciate being allowed to participate and speak today.
Chuck Gomes:It is unfortunate that all the good work that Westlake did is being overshadowed by one rec.
Robin Gross:I don't have audio, but I'd like my question answered.
Bill Drake:good value for registrant money
Arun Sukumar:thanks all for this illuminating call
Larisa Gurnick:The cost is a contractual matter.
Bill Drake::-)
Robin Gross:does that mean it is a secret, Larisa?
Rafik:what is the cost of volunteers time
Bill Drake:going to encourage my undergrads to bid on ICANN contracts
Chuck Gomes:Thanks all.
Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.
Larisa Gurnick:Thank you all
Rafik:bye
Robin Gross:no answer to my question on what we are paying for these recommendations.
Avri Doria:thanks. bye. glad thsi part is over.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-review-dt/attachments/20150916/8e148295/attachment.html>
More information about the Gnso-review-dt
mailing list