[Gnso-rpm-protection] [gnso-rpm-wg] Food for Thought: DMCA procedure at YouTube contrast with URS/UDRP

Mon Jan 8 20:05:04 UTC 2018

Paul,

Can you provide us with some source citations for your assertion that the vast majority of domains transferred in a UDRP were subsequently allowed to expire?  In our experience, at least working on behalf of our clients, we almost never allow recovered domains to expire; instead they are transferred into the client’s overall domain name portfolio and held either for future active use or to maintain defensive protection.

Best regards,

Brian

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From: Gnso-rpm-protection [mailto:gnso-rpm-protection-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 2:58 PM
To: Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>
Cc: gnso-rpm-protection at icann.org; Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-rpm-protection] [gnso-rpm-wg] Food for Thought: DMCA procedure at YouTube contrast with URS/UDRP

Rebecca

Not changing my opposition but facts are always a good thing.

Pls make sure that the registrant has remained the same. You should also acquire a screenshot from screenshots.com<http://screenshots.com> (free).

Interestingly a few years ago it was found that the vast majority of domains transferred in a UDRP were subsequently allowed to expire by the complainant.
Sincerely,
Paul Keating, Esq.

On Jan 8, 2018, at 8:48 PM, Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu<mailto:rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>> wrote:
My RA is presently coding all decided cases and will look at whether the domains are still active and registrant identity, if any.
Rebecca Tushnet
Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School

Sent from my phone. Apologies for terseness/typos.

On Jan 8, 2018, at 12:07 PM, claudio di gangi <ipcdigangi at gmail.com<mailto:ipcdigangi at gmail.com>> wrote:
Paul,

I don't have the exact numbers.

Anecdotally, it appears a non-trivial portion of the suspended domains are being renewed by the losing registrant; see this blog article:
https://domainnamewire.com/2016/11/18/strange-thing-happening-domain-names-suspended-urs/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__domainnamewire.com_2016_11_18_strange-2Dthing-2Dhappening-2Ddomain-2Dnames-2Dsuspended-2Durs_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=wwBGTHuqzACAi0540c88LR0K2k-RR0L30sLtDv7zO38&e=>

From the domains I've researched, a much smaller subset are being put back into use by redelegating the Name Servers.

I previously sent around reference to a domain that was suspended, and the registrant took back control and the domain is being offered for sale.

Best regards,
Claudio

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup at gmail.com>> wrote:
Has there ever been an instance where someone has made a nuisance of themselves by re-registering and abusing names that they have had suspended under a URS determination?

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:26 PM, claudio di gangi <ipcdigangi at gmail.com<mailto:ipcdigangi at gmail.com>> wrote:
George, all,

Thanks for this note.

Just for clarification on the last point, as I understand the current remedies available under the URS does not include cancellation of the domain.

As a result, upon expiry the suspended domain can be renewed and used (including for abusive purposes) by the losing registrant of the URS decision.

To address this issue we can consider adding cancellation as a remedy (or otherwise modifying the URS) to minimize the need for repeated, serial enforcement against previously suspended domains.

Best regards,
Claudio

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 8:09 AM, George Kirikos <icann at leap.com<mailto:icann at leap.com>> wrote:
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that they are different. Just
pointing out that there are other systems out there that don't have
that role reversal feature.

Also, I believe some folks had mused about the possibility of a single
DRP that integrated the URS and UDRP. The issue of creation of a
"Notice of Dispute", that preceded the actual dispute, also has
arisen. If such a system also handled the high number of defaults
differently than today, then one result might be a much lower cost
procedure in the case of defaults (i.e. it could be very lightweight
like the YouTube procedure), and then reference to the courts for the
disputes when both sides show up and are heavily contesting the
matter.

In terms of integration, one way to look at the URS is that it's very
similar to a UDRP where the Complainant (TM holder) asks only for
cancellation, albeit that the URS cancellation happens with a delay
(under the UDRP, the cancellation would happen almost immediately,
after allowing for the appeal to the courts)

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
416-588-0269<tel:416-588-0269>
http://www.leap.com/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=bZgUqdZsWJpxn2JYP9hWkC_z7SdwF8iumg-TacpP0K0&e=>

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Paul Keating <Paul at law.es<mailto:Paul at law.es>> wrote:
> George,
>
> I know that a response has already been posted but I wanted to add my
> quick thoughts.
>
> I agree that the DMCA and the UDRP/URS are not identical.  In fact the
> roles remain reversed throughout the UDRP/URS process.  The DMCA merely
> provides a notice, take-down followed by the opportunity to revive the
> posting.  Once reposting occurs the issue remains as it was before the
> notice - the copyright owner must proceed with litigation.  The UDRP/URS
> however, results in the domain being transferred/suspended or not.  In the
> case of transfer, it is the registrant that must file.  In the case the
> complaint is denied then the trademark owner has that burden (like the
> copyright owner in the DMCA example).
>
> PRK
>
> On 1/6/18, 12:23 AM, "gnso-rpm-wg on behalf of George Kirikos"
> <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of icann at leap.com<mailto:icann at leap.com>> wrote:
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>There was an interesting article published today about a copyright
>>dispute involving "white noise" videos on YouTube:
>>
>>https://gizmodo.com/man-s-youtube-video-of-white-noise-hit-with-five-copyr<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gizmodo.com_man-2Ds-2Dyoutube-2Dvideo-2Dof-2Dwhite-2Dnoise-2Dhit-2Dwith-2Dfive-2Dcopyr&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=yI8IlcPvPIlDqrdRWh-iZZdz6lDpcXPUJPG2ttherGc&e=>
>>i-1821804093
>>
>>which linked to the dispute procedure that YouTube follows:
>>
>>https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797454<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_2797454&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=IMiR-5Ud9RFHo5-f7FCECVgR6eJ2Be6XwMi8WswYyd0&e=>
>>
>>Going through the various links, it was very interesting that they
>>even have a "Copyright School", see:
>>
>>https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_2814000&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=qXp5rTBiTX-MOwOADnOBiZmaqytGHEe67QEWFZYG4T8&e=>
>>
>>(expand the "How to resolve a copyright strike" to see the link to
>>it), which is quite interesting, given how often the education aspect
>>for registrants has come up in our PDP's work.
>>
>>Also of interest is the section on "Counter Notification Basics":
>>
>>https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807684<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_2807684&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=qS_-DaNj3pFGWKD1Pkw_-smTgstSPSBiLWhqYJhoStY&e=>
>>
>>where importantly it says:
>>
>>"After we process your counter notification by forwarding it to the
>>claimant, the claimant has 10 business days to provide us with
>>evidence that they have initiated a court action to keep the content
>>down."
>>
>>and it's the content creator who posts the relevant jurisdiction:
>>
>>https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6005919<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.google.com_youtube_answer_6005919&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=sV1rBCsLFhkLclqA4Kx0Sw9NVS6tWys0L94WNBadQJk&e=>
>>
>>""I consent to the jurisdiction of the Federal District Court for the
>>district in which my address is located, or if my address is outside
>>of the United States, the judicial district in which YouTube is
>>located, and will accept service of process from the claimant."
>>
>>As noted in prior threads, various issues arise under the URS (and
>>UDRP) when the natural role of plaintiffs vs. defendants (had the
>>URS/UDRP not existed) gets reversed (e.g. the Yoyo.email UK "cause of
>>action issue", as well as IGO and other groups' claimed "sovereign
>>immunity").
>>
>>With the dispute resolution procedure followed by YouTube, instead the
>>onus is on the copyright owner (the "claimant") to file the lawsuit,
>>in the same natural way that would exist had that dispute resolution
>>procedure not existed. Thus, none of the issues due to reversal of
>>plaintiff/defendant arise.
>>
>>I thought it would be of interest, especially as it also might also
>>give insights as to how "defaults" are handled.
>>
>>Food for thought.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>George Kirikos
>>416-588-0269<tel:416-588-0269>
>>http://www.leap.com/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=75VBJOhTZcrx-MAdyVRcLjXDNCZLGcptQJ_mv5X3IT4&s=bZgUqdZsWJpxn2JYP9hWkC_z7SdwF8iumg-TacpP0K0&e=>
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