[gnso-rpm-wg] Attendance & Mp3 RPM WG Wednesday, 27 April 2016 17:00 UTC

Michelle DeSmyter michelle.desmyter at icann.org
Wed Apr 27 23:45:02 UTC 2016

Dear All,

Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the  Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 17:00 UTC.

MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-27apr16-en.mp3

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:


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Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/

Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/wCWAAw

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Michelle DeSmyter


Adobe Connect chat transcript for 27 April 2016:

Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group on Wednesday, 27 April 17:00 UTC.
  Roger Baah:Hello
  Michelle DeSmyter:Hello, welcome Roger!  We will be starting in apporoximately 30 minutes
  Peter Müller:Good evening
  George Kirikos:Hi everyone.
  Elliot Silver:Hello everyone.
  Lars Hoffmann:hi everyone.
  Georges Nahitchevansky:Hi everyone
  Amr Elsadr:Hi all.
  Paul Tattersfield:Hi everyone
  Darcy Southwell:Hello!
  Thomas Brackey:Hello RPMers
  J. Scott:dialing in now
  Reg Levy - M+M:Hi, all!
  Robin Gross:Good morning from San Francisco!
  Reg Levy - M+M:PLEASE mute your mics if you're not speaking
  J. Scott:there is a great deal of feedback and echo
  Petter Rindforth:Good evening from Stockholm
  Kathy Kleiman:Glad everyone could attend this special session!
  Reg Levy - M+M:or, even, Mary, can you just mute all of us, please, as you are admin?
  VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Someone's mic is on
  Rudi Vansnick:Good evening from Ghent
  Rudi Vansnick:almost winter weather
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everyone
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everyone
  Yuri Chumak:greetings from Toronto
  Michael Peroff:Greetings from Chicago
  catherine.douglas:catherine douglas
  Mariia Parubets:Hi from Hamburg
  Graham Schreiber:Graham
  catherine.douglas:not sure if I am connected - not seemingly heard
  George Kirikos:We've now exceeded 200 participants in this PDP ( 131 members + 72 observers). https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=58729950
  Sabine Meyer:Make that 73 - I've signed up as an observer some time ago but am not listed yet.
  Marie Pattullo:Good evening from Brussesl - I feel your pain, Rudi!
  Marie Pattullo:*Brussels
  Rudi Vansnick:@Marie : hopefully next week weather will become nice(r) and warmer
  Philip Corwin:An additional administrative point --please provide apologies to staff for not being able to attend a call, as well as any requests to have call details re-sent to them, or a dial out to be made if you need that. They should be sent to the GNSO Secretariat at gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>, and not to the entire mailing list.
  Philip Corwin:Technically, the new gTLD RPMs are "implementation details" for that program and not yet Consensus Policy for all gTLDs, including legacy registires like .Com. This WG will consider whether any or all of them should become Consensus Policies.
  Edward Morris:Excellent point Phil
  George Kirikos:Definitely non-exhaustive.
  Robin Gross:Who is conducting the independent view of the TMCH?  What company / contractor?  Thanks.
  Susan Payne:Analysis Group Robin
  Robin Gross:Thanks!
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Are outages/glitches being reviewed too?
  Petter Rindforth:Talking about parallel work, are we planning to co-operate with ccNSO when we reach the UDRP phase? (As a great number of ccTLDs are using UDRP or close variants thereof)
  George Kirikos:Pricing/competition aspects of the TMCH should also be analyzed....a monopoly provider of TMCH services isn't optimal.
  Philip Corwin:@Petter--excelent point and likely that we shall, subject to WG consensus
  VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:@George Good Point,  Infact TMCH may not be valid for South Asia due to Non Advance nature of TMs filing and a growing market. So A Region Specific approach may be welcomed
  Mariia Parubets:second Petter Rindforth
  Doug Isenberg:(For the record: I just joined Adobe Connect. Had been on phone line previously)
  khouloud dawahi:I agree with george we need to tackle it from an antitrust prospective
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):will the PDF be provided as a URL ?
  George Kirikos:It would be relatively trivial for registrars to query a set of ICANN-approved TMCH providers, and aggregate the results, rather than query just a single provider. More providers = more choice for TM holders = lower costs, better service = competition.
  Philip Corwin:I shall be stepping aside from Council Liaison role once Co-chair arrangement is official, and it will appoint a new Council member to perform that role
  Robin Gross:who are the "subject matter experts" we are to consult?  Thanks.
  Petter Rindforth:@George, Isee you have already started the sub-group work ;-)
  George Kirikos::-)
  Amr Elsadr:Thanks for that Mary. That was great.
  Susan Payne:@George, I agree with you - although I would like to understand whether we should be analysing pricing and competition aspects.  shouldn''t this analysis part be a task that the CCT-RT is undertaking (as opposed to developing policy as a result of that)?
  Joe Styler:great presentation Mary thank you
  George Kirikos:Right, Susan, I think that's squarely a "policy" matter, not an "implementation detail", so something we should look at, in my opinion.
  Philip Corwin:Please raise your hand if you have a question or comment
  Gabriela Szlak:I believe pricing aspects should be analized as they might be barriers for broader use of these tools in the developing world or even in the developed world for SMEs
  Philip Corwin:I'll be speaking to CCT-RT coordination later in the call
  catherine.douglas:would like to join audio, Mary, thanks
  Mary Wong:The question of pricing and competition may be something to be coordinated and discussed with the Competition, Consumer Trust and Protection Review team
  Mary Wong:@Catherine - you can connect your Adobe Connect audio by clicking on the microphone icon at the top, or call in to the audio bridge.
  David Tait:The document does scroll independently
  catherine.douglas:will write to you separately, Mary....
  Lars Hoffmann:in the chat you find the questions kathy and others referred to. these are non exhaustive and are contained in the final issue report which in turn can be found here: http://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/new-gtlds/rpm-final-issue-11jan16-en.pdf
  George Kirikos:Topics not to discuss: selling/promoting your own website/domain (i.e. today's spam to the mailing list!) :-)
  Steve Levy:Question: Is it within our scope to review the procedures around the various RPMs or only stick to the RPMs (poicies) themselves?
  Paul Tattersfield:@ George :)
  Graham Schreiber:<Question>Hi All & ICANN IPC Prez, Greg:When will the RPM Team be investigating those .COM Domain Name Registrants who’ve self ordained themselves as EXTRATERRITORIAL from the Lanham Acts ACPA?As Jones Day can attest, uk.COM never became a “new gTLD” back at the ICANN meeting in Japan.Thanks, Graham.http://www.adrforum.com/ThirdLevel<End<http://www.adrforum.com/ThirdLevel%3CEnd> Question>
  Philip Corwin:We will be coordintaing with the parallel Subsequent Procedures WG
  Steve Levy:I also meant to inluce rules in my question
  Graham Schreiber:<Question> Phil, so to deal with what INTA long ago called "mock ccTLDs" is under a ...  "parallel Subsequent Procedures WG"  ??  <End Question>
  George Kirikos:NB: UDRP is NOT an arbitration (some folks keep referring to it as such, but it's not).
  Philip Corwin:@George-- it is technically a curative rights process -- but much closer to arbitration than adjudication
  Philip Corwin:@Graham--the only RPM that covers .Com is the UDRP, which is to be addressed in Phase 2 of our work
  Greg Shatan:George, what's the basis of your distinction?
  VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:In my opinion,  Too Many Side conversations - it is Distracting. Can V Plz slow Dwn.
  Graham Schreiber:<Question>  The TPP identifies ICANN at Section 18, Article 18:28 on Domain Names.  ~  How can participating TPP Nations trust ICANN, if they don't enforce the RAA? <End Question>
  George Kirikos:Arbitrations are given some deference in lawsuits, UDRP has no deference, as per various judicial decisions.
  Robin Gross:Thanks, Mary.  Sounds like it is up the the Working Group to work that out.  Thanks again.
  Graham Schreiber:<Question> Phil, how can I go to ADR Forum for a fair consideration, when a Domain Name Registrant has long ago managed to e~VaED the ACPA ?  ~~  Thanks.  <End Question>
  Doug Isenberg:FWIW, the UDRP itself refers a number of times to "arbitration" (apaprently in reference to the policy itself)
  Mary Wong:@Robin, absolutely.
  Graham Schreiber:Im on a mut
  George Kirikos:e.g. see http://www.balough.com/udrp-not-federal-arbitration/
  Graham Schreiber:Which button ??
  Petter Rindforth:*6
  Graham Schreiber:Got the button!
  George Kirikos:Doug: if you check the UDRP text, it's only referencing "arbitration" as to appeals, not in describing the UDRP itself as an arbitration.
  VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:@Graham Your Questions is not Audible
  Mary Wong:@George, all, I believe the most accurate description is that it is a "mandatory administrative proceeding".
  George Kirikos:Right, Mary.
  Cyntia King:So Graham is asking if we can increase scope of work to include special arrangements?
  George Kirikos:I think Graham's "issue" is with 3rd level domains. i.e. he owns Landcruise.com, and is concerned about Landcruise.uk.com, or something like that.
  Susan Payne:I would have said this issue is out of scope
  Griffin Barnett:+1
  Graham Schreiber:Thanks.
  Mary Wong:Some iinformation on the parallel PDP that Phil is now mentioning, ie the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/active/new-gtld-subsequent-procedures
  Rudi Vansnick:member of that one too ...
  Kathy Kleiman:@Graham: to take you hand down, you reclick on the hands up icon
  Mary Wong:@Rudi, thanks for volunteering for both - yes, there are some members of both Working Groups.
  Graham Schreiber:Thanks, done.
  Rudi Vansnick:both seems to take a halftime dayjob ;-)
  Robin Gross:True, Rudi!
  Mary Wong:The GNSO Rules require all PDP Working Groups to seek input at an early stage from all ICANN Supporting Organizations, Advisory Committees and the GNSO's own Stakeholder Groups and Constituencies - this will therefore include the GAC (Governmental Advisory Committee).
  George Kirikos:I believe the UDRP is referenced in the TPP trade agreement text.....so the impact of this working group is bigger than just gTLDs, by the way. See Phil's article at: http://www.circleid.com/posts/20151109_the_tpp_and_the_dns/
  Rudi Vansnick:should we plan these input request at early stage ? my experience with another PDP allows me to say : start the input request as soon as possible ...
  Mary Wong:@Rudi, yes - that will be factored into the WOrk Plan
  Alistair Payne:Mary,  do you know which day the 2 working group sessions are scheduled for in Helsinki? Thanks
  Mary Wong:Explanation of the Competition, Consumer Trust and Consumer Protection Review Team: https://www.icann.org/resources/reviews/aoc/cct
  Mary Wong:@Alistair, I can look it up - note that as Phil mentioned, the Helsinki schedule is still a work in progress
  Alistair Payne:Thanks Mary
  Rudi Vansnick:should the meeting in Helsinki of this WG be scheduled  for at leats 2 hours ?
  khouloud dawahi:thanks mary .
  Petter Rindforth:@Mary: Is it possible for ICANN to schedule all meetings so that we don’t collide with other WG’s dealing with related topics?
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):please seed the slide deck
  Marie Pattullo:Coordination makes total sense - share both the load & the knowledge!
  Rudi Vansnick:@Petter: seems it will be a real hussle to get the schedule organized without conflicts
  Mary Wong:@Alistair - I believe the current draft schedule has this Working Group session slotted into Thursday 30 June
  Ines Hfaiedh:Thanks for all the clarifications. I am happy to learn from all of you.
  Alistair Payne:Thanks Mary
  Mary Wong:@Petter, that is something that the GNSO Council is discussing now - Donna Austin (Vice Chair) and Volker Greimann (ex-Councilor) are repreenting the GNSO on the community planning team for this
  Graham Schreiber:<Comment>Yes George, its at Section 18, Article 18:28.    ~~   So now ICANN Et Al maybe questioned in Canadian Court.<End Comment>
  Petter Rindforth:thanks
  Greg Shatan:@George, looked at that link -- apparently certain features of the UDRP caused it to fail the "what's a covered arbitration" test under the US Federal Arbitration Act.  We should consider whether we want to revise the UDRP so that it passes that test.
  VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:It ll discourage participation from South Asia
  Mary Wong:The proposed meeting times are listed in the right hand pod
  George Kirikos:As a registrant, I think it should get no deference, so it should continue to fail that test. :-)
  Mary Wong:Here is a timezone chart that may be helpful in referencing your time zone with UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=4&day=21&year=2016&p1=137&p2=263&p3=51&p4=136&p5=111&p6=102&p7=240&iv=0
  VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:2000UTC will not suit
  Kathy Kleiman:Next week will be taped and available to be seen at your convenience
  Greg Shatan:@George, are you expecting to lose?
  catherine.douglas:looks good - consideration of those in other time zones is good
  George Kirikos:Nope, Greg. Just that it's "adjudication lite", without the due process of a real court.
  Sara Bockey:Thank you all
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
  Paul Keating:thank you all.  Good night
  Joe Styler:thank you
  Marie Pattullo:Thanks all!
  Ines Hfaiedh:Thank you very much
  George Kirikos:It's dangerous to grant such an informal procedure any deference.
  Justin Bukspan:Thank you all!
  David McAuley (RySG):useful call, thank you
  Susan Payne:Excellent, thanks all
  Martin Silva:great call ! cheers to all.
  Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.
  Robin Gross:Thanks, Phil, Kathy, J Scott, and all!  Bye!
  Steve Levy:Thank you for that heopful webinar
  Ines Hfaiedh:bye everyone !
  Mariia Parubets:thank you all and co-chairs
  Reg Levy - M+M:thanks!
  khouloud dawahi:than? you all
  Edward Morris:Thanks everyone.
  George Kirikos:Bye everyone. Have a great day!
  Sabine Meyer:Thank you and good bye!
  Rudi Vansnick:bye to all
  Roger Baah:bye all
  Greg Shatan:Bye all
  J. Scott:thanks all and goodbye
  Darcy Southwell:Thanks and bye!

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