[gnso-rpm-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group 15 June 2016
Terri Agnew
terri.agnew at icann.org
Thu Jun 16 02:33:33 UTC 2016
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 21:00 UTC.
MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-15jun16-en.mp3 <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-08jun16-en.mp3>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov>
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/
Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/rhiOAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri Agnew
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for 15 June 2016:
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 21:00 UTC
Terri Agnew:member /soi wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/3iWAAw
Roger Baah:Thanks... Hi Terri..
Roger Baah:Hi all..
George Kirikos:Hi everyone.
Roger Baah:Hi George
George Kirikos:Hi Roger. How are you today?
Roger Baah:very well
Roger Baah:Oga Ekpe how?
Sonigitu Ekpe:Greetings from Calabar, Nigeria
George Kirikos:Hi Sonigutu.
George Kirikos:Oops, I meant "Sonigitu".
Sonigitu Ekpe:I am fine Roga. Greetings George.
George Kirikos:Sonigitu.com is unregistered -- might want to grab that one! Not many people have the ability to own their firstname.com.
Sonigitu Ekpe:Hi! George that will be very interesting.
Roger Baah:not roger.com
George Kirikos:For under $15/yr, that's a no-brainer. :)
Sonigitu Ekpe:What next to get a hold of that, George?
Roger Baah:Oga go for it...
George Kirikos:You can register it at any registrar, e.g. GoDaddy, etc.
Sonigitu Ekpe:I need you to assist.
George Kirikos:Here's a list of all of them -- https://www.internic.net/origin.html
Sonigitu Ekpe:Thank you. I shall check it up.
George Kirikos:There's one registrar in Nigeria, https://domains.upperlink.ng but you can use any of them. GoDaddy is the largest registrar.
Roger Baah:Sonigitu lets talk after i will assist
Roger Baah:roger.baah at gmail.com
Roger Baah:yeah...you can use that.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everyone
Sonigitu Ekpe:Welcom Maxim
George Kirikos:Hi Maxim.
Marina Lewis:Hi everyone!
George Kirikos:Welcome, Marina.
Elliot Silver:Hello!
Joe Styler:hello
Mary Wong:The questions that the Providers were asked to respond to are in Section II.
Mary Wong:And the document is unsync'ed so you can scroll.
George Kirikos:Scroll down.
Paul McGrady:Neda, welcome to ICANNland!
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:In the interest of full disclosure, I worked with ICANN to create the PDDRP Rules and created the Forum's Supplemental Rules. I have indicated to Neda that I would be willing to share past experiences. My statements are not made on behalf of Amazon, nor are they intended to advocate for any particular position.
George Kirikos:PDDRP fees @ NAF are at: http://www.adrforum.com/resources/gTLD/Supplemental%20Rules-PDDRP.pdf (page 13)
George Kirikos:They appear to be much lower than those of WIPO, posted last week.
Rebecca Tushnet:This discussion makes me wonder whether we can ask registry operators similar questions.
George Kirikos:+1 Rebecca
Robin Gross:+1 Rebecca
George Kirikos:NAF forms at: http://www.adrforum.com/gTLD (scroll down to PDDRP)
Sonigitu Ekpe:Once there is a mechanism then we can ask registry operators questions.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:To see the Forum's PDDRP panelists, go to: http://www.adrforum.com/SearchPanelists and select PDDRP as an expertise.
Paul McGrady:+1 Neda. It could be that it is having a preventative effect.
Petter Rindforth:Neda and/or Kristina: do you have any direct ideas/proposals for minor changes that may make this system more "attractive"?
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Apologies for the poor connection....
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Excellent recap J. Scott
Petter Rindforth:very good :-)
George Kirikos:More attractive compared to? Or on behalf of which side? (i.e. one wants to make sure it's a level playing field for each side, and reflects what would happen in a court action)
Nick Wood:As a member of the IRT, it was not meant to be attractive. The hope was that it would never be used. Similar to the new ICANN Accountability measures. Severe not attractive.
Jon Nevett:Begging the question why we want to make the system more attractive. From the start of this process, ICANN said it would be a success if it were never used. Just like the Continued Operations Instrument -- better if it is never used.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:George, I was interpreting "attractive" as "to the party choosing to file".
abeldanielle at gmail.com:I<mailto:abeldanielle at gmail.com:I> agree wtih Kristine. I work with digital marketing in Brasil.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:And on behalf of Amazon, I offically agree with Jon.
George Kirikos:Kristine: well, it would always be a TM holder choosing to file, never a registry. :-)
Greg Shatan:I suggest the word "worthwhile" rather than "attractive."
George Kirikos:Is Greg on mute?
Greg Shatan:Just realized I haven't dialed in yet.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Yes, George, for PDDRP, you're right. The RRDRP doesn't have that standing requirement.
Greg Shatan:Non-use is only a success if the reason for it is that no bad acts occurred.
George Kirikos:We've seen some letters to ICANN complaining about registry practices (e.g. dot-sucks). But, they didn't file a PDDRP.
Sara Bockey:I have some weird audio issues going on
Neda Shahghasemi (Forum):I agree with that
Jeff Neuman:@Greg - It is not that no bad acts occurred, but no acts severe enough to justify a rememdy under the PDDRP
Jeff Neuman:rememdy
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:<Amazon hat back on> It may be a useful question to find out from brand owners if they meant to use this process and what stopped them?
Greg Shatan:I'm dialed in now.
Jeff Neuman:remedy
Jeff Neuman:I can spell
George Kirikos:We might see the PDDRP in greater use as some of the more "desperate" registry operators use more radical measures, testing the "line" so to speak.
Jon Nevett:Kristine raises a great point -- are there instances when it could have been used. If so, why wasn't it?
Petter Rindforth:Is it possible to make a research for (if any) court cases that could instead have been solved by using TM-PDDRP?
George Kirikos:Have there been any court cases against registry operators yet? (the .africa one was more about the process of awarding it, rather than TM owners suing the registry operator)
Mary Wong:@Petter, I'm not sure how we'd be able to do that without some speculation.
Susan Payne:QUESTION - could Kristine perhaps give is a little more information about the enquiries that Neda mentioned had been received before her time? What kind of situations did they relate to?
Jon Nevett:registries like PDDRP if it is used to go after bad actors -- I, for one, supported it
Statton Hammock:As a registry operator, I am not opposed to the PDDRP. Agree with Jon's point. Its a success if its never been used.
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:Yes, I'll answer, Susan.
Greg Shatan:It's a success if it never should have been used. It's not a success if it should have been used, but wasn't.
Jeff Neuman:The original intent of the PDDRP was to go after registries that were unjustifiably enriched at the expense of trademark owners by participating directly in the infringement of third parties. It was an alternative to going to court. It was to address widespread trademark abuse.
George Kirikos:We can then compile the responses into a table, perhaps, from all providers?
George Kirikos:(to compare answers in 1 document)
Mary Wong:@George, yes, we will do that
George Kirikos:Thanks Mary.
Petter Rindforth:@Mary - just to get some idea (even if speculation) - if there are any known cases on the same/similar topic
Mary Wong:@Petter, if we are to do that, it may be best to pick a few jurisdictions and a few example registries, rather than search through multiple jurisdictions for all 1000+ registry operators ...
Susan Payne:thanks Kristine
Jeff Neuman:Yes, one of the reasons for the PDDRP was to "force" compliance to do its job. It is why the original PDDRP when drafted had a much bigger role for staff in implementing the first round of a PDDRP
Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry:you're welcome.
Jeff Neuman:Kristine is absolutely correct that the PDDRP was in response to ICANN doing so poorly at the time on compliance
Jeff Neuman:things have changed
George Kirikos:I think if the goal was to "force" compliance to do its job, giving standing to TM holders to sue ICANN for not monitoring abuses would be far more effective.
Jeff Neuman:@George - Interesting note that I brought that up to Kurt Pritz when he was at ICANN.....as you can imagine that idea was summarily dismissed :)
George Kirikos:Not surprising, Jeff. :-)
Mary Wong:We will circulate this document to the WG following the call.
Mary Wong:Correction - we will post this document to the WG wiki, and send the full document around after we receive the Forum's responses.
Mary Wong:Will do, J Scott.
Philip Corwin:@George & Jeff -- ICANN legal will never sign off on anything that increases the organization's litigation exposure. That said, this WG is not bound by any prohibitions on what we might recommend.
George Kirikos:Next call would be 3 weeks from now? (i.e. no call next week, no call during Helsinki week) And new time would be 1 pm Eastern?
Mary Wong:13 July
George Kirikos:Oops, I guess that's 4 weeks, then?
Mary Wong:@George, not counting the two sessions at ICANN56, that is.
George Kirikos:The + button allows for zooming the document.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Anyone travelling to Shanghai ?
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:WIC in July 6-10
George Kirikos:Should something be mentioned about PDDRP in the plan?
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Should there be a event created on the Wikki and One can At least sign up and know who is travelling and who is not
Mary Wong:@George, presumably that will be highlighted in the Overview section
Mary Wong:Note that it could also form part of the agenda for the open WG meeting in Helsinki
Mary Wong:@J Scott, we can try.
Susan Payne:sorry!
Mary Wong:What we will most likely do, though, is put the links on the slides posted for the Monday session - that way, we "sneak" them in without upsetting the Schedule Police too much :)
Terri Agnew:@Susan, I see your mic is active and unmuted. Please let me know if a dial out on the telephone is needed
Susan Payne:yes can we continuethe PDDRP discussion in Helsinki in the WG as Mary suggests?>
Susan Payne:good poinmt :)
George Kirikos:Should we create a feedback form to collect responses in Helsinki efficiently, esp. if participants want to give it some thought, and don't have input "live" at the session?
Mary Wong:@Susan, @J Scott, that's now indicated in the updated Work Plan :)
George Kirikos:(i.e. open it up for a week or two, so we can have then before the July 13th meeting)
Mary Wong:@George, we will investigate the possibility e.g. online form or something
George Kirikos:Thanks, Mary. That was my thought too, an online form, so they can simply fill it out later, if time at the session is a constraint, or if they want to consult with others not at the meeting, etc.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Should there be a event created on the Wikki and One can At least sign up and know who is travelling and who is not
abeldanielle at gmail.com:Where<mailto:abeldanielle at gmail.com:Where> I can find all material?
George Kirikos:RPM Wiki "main page" is at https://community.icann.org/display/RARPMRIAGPWG/Review+of+all+Rights+Protection+Mechanisms+%28RPMs%29+in+all+gTLDs+PDP+Working+Group+Home
Ivett Paulovics:@Vaibhav the following is the public list of the participants: https://registration.icann.org/reg_disp.php?id=helsinki56
Robin Gross:sounds like a good plan to share the pain
Susan Payne:Thank you to everyone in the WG for accommodating this
Edward Morris:Thanks Mary - that would be helpful.
Terri Agnew:please send apologies to gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>
Jon Nevett:It would be great to get the calendar invites as early as possible so that we block off the correct times well in advance. Thanks!!
Mary Wong:All WG meetings (with agendas, presentations, documents) and their recordings and transcripts are posted to the wiki page following each meeting (link provided by George upthread)
abeldanielle at gmail.com:ok<mailto:abeldanielle at gmail.com:ok> thanks ! ;)
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:@Ivett Thanx That is a exhaustive list - I am refering to a easier - Group Wise List - Like this is a smaller group
Lori Schulman:We graciously accept. Ciao.
Paul McGrady:Thanks!!
Reg Levy - MMX:Thanks, J. Scott, and everyone else!
Darcy Southwell:Thank you!
Steve Levy:Thanks, J Scott
Ivett Paulovics:I am not aware of it. I will be there ;-)
Robin Gross:thanks all, bye!
George Kirikos:Bye everyone.
Susan Payne:thanks all
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Excellet
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:KIT
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Ciao
Jay Chapman:goodbye
Philip Corwin:Good job chairing, J Scott/bye all
Joe Styler:bye
Susan Kawaguchi:thanks all!
Neda Shahghasemi (Forum):Thanks Mary
Georges Nahitchevansky:Thanks everyone
Roger Baah:bye all
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