[gnso-rpm-wg] Mp3, AC Chat & Attendance for Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDS PDP WG

Michelle DeSmyter michelle.desmyter at icann.org
Thu Oct 20 12:23:06 UTC 2016

Dear All,

Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call held on Wednesday, 19 October  2016 at 21:00 UTC. Attendance of the call is posted on agenda wiki page:  https://community.icann.org/x/che4Aw

MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-19oct16-en.mp3


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov>

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/

Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/che4Aw

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Michelle DeSmyter


Adobe Connect chat transcript for 19 October 2016:

 Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group call on Wednesday, 19 October 2016 at 21:00 UTC
  Michelle DeSmyter:Agenda page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_che4Aw&d=DQIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=5LnxiDeefBK6yWzyV3RjzAlySd_UKQ-TBCW0-kAWTeg&s=47eMqLabospf0S1ybphebBnpO2IyIDs0msczSDXfIoA&e=
  George Kirikos:Hi folks.
  Michelle DeSmyter:Hi there George!!
  George Kirikos:Hi Michelle. How are you?
  Michelle DeSmyter:Very well, thank you so much
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All
  Philip Corwin:Hello all. Beautiful afternoon in DC
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):second question: who is still waiting for visa :)
  Statton Hammock:@Phil. Breaking any temperature records today in DC?
  Greg Shatan:I am still waiting for my visa....  nervously.
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):me too
  Philip Corwin:Got my visa, and just got my Hepatitis-A and Typhoid shots and my malaria Rx. Yippee!
  Philip Corwin:86 in DC. May be a record. I just biked 10 miles ;-)
  yuri chumak:greeting from Toronto
  Paul McGrady:Reboot.  :)
  Greg Shatan:82 in New York.
  George Kirikos:Welcome, Yuri. Go Blue Jays. :-)
  Steve Levy:Hi all
  Philip Corwin:Tomorrow goes back to fall -- rain and the 60s.
  yuri chumak:thanks George :)
  Reg Levy - MMX:I'm good for now, thanks.
  Reg Levy - MMX:Sorry, NO idea why my hand was up.
  David Tait:They're free
  Mary Wong:Working Group wiki page for TM-PDDRP materials and responses: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_ugqsAw&d=DQIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=5LnxiDeefBK6yWzyV3RjzAlySd_UKQ-TBCW0-kAWTeg&s=WEiMGqBuiO8CDKXhe5KSM35TNym6uDfr66XyxIFpudk&e=
  Jeff Neuman:I am so confused again.  We are talking about mediation again for which 11 of the 16 responses said there were no activities that would have given rise to any claims under the pddrp?
  Paul Tattersfield:Sorry I'm late
  George Kirikos:I would only consider the survey as having 12 "outside" responses, given 4 of the 16 came from members of this PDP.
  Elizabeth Featherman:Sorry I am late.
  Mary Wong:@Jeff, it's not been agreed what topics will be further discussed - we're just going through the survey responses now, and the Provider responses at the next meeting in Hyderabad.
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):percentage for such low numbers are meaningless
  George Kirikos:+1 Maxim
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and misleading
  Jeff Neuman:@Mary - I thought Kathy just said that were going to spend time in Hyderabad talking about mediation
  Mary Wong:These graphs and percentages are automatically compiled by Survey Monkey - so for our purposes it may be more informative to look at the raw numbers.
  George Kirikos:The raw answers to the survey, via the link Kathy emailed to the list, was more useful.
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is a good idea to leave only numbers
  Mary Wong:@Maxim, the numbers are included in the slides.
  Jeff Neuman:Agreed these percentages are meaningless with the low numbers
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@mary, percentage form wrong perceprion (you have to look through the slide)
  George Kirikos:The full answers are at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_RARPMRIAGPWG_Additional-2BDocuments-2Band-2BMaterials-2Bon-2Bthe-2BTM-2DPDDRP&d=DQIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=5LnxiDeefBK6yWzyV3RjzAlySd_UKQ-TBCW0-kAWTeg&s=T9GHLlC-g54p7MHquzOcMqfOa4NrTC8_eyGm51KPlRM&e=  (directly below "Surveys") MIght need to add a .pdf file extension, to be able to read it properly.
  Steve Levy:Interesting that one respondent's clients prefer to give up!
  Jeff Neuman:Did anyone say they would have used it if there was mediation :)
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:This is the key question
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:IT gets to the point of the survey.
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Q7
  Brian Cimbolic:absolutely - question 7 is the threshold question
  George Kirikos:"perception of bias based on experiences" --- strange, given no one has ever experienced a PDDRP :-)
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):more usefull representation would be __name of the constituency __number
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:One person who answered no to Q7, elected to complete the remaining questions, it looks like.
  Steve Levy:George, I'm not surprised that someone woudl have a "perception of bias" based on very little or no information. Quite typical in a variety of fields.
  Paul McGrady:A low turn out is its own statistic.
  Brian Cimbolic:+1 Paul
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:The purpose of the survey was to try to identify anecdotes or issues that could direct the group to problems that need solving.
  Greg Shatan:Q7 only asks whether, at this time, the respondent has yet seen any activity that could be challenged under the PDDRP.
  Philip Corwin:Statement that burden of proof is impossible seems hyperbole. Yes it's high, but not that high. I suspect bigger issue is uncertainty of what will result even if burden is met.
  Mary Wong:There is also the Google Doc that a few WG members filled out with anecdotal evidence of perceived registry conduct that they felt might fall under the TM-PDDRP.
  Mary Wong:The Google Doc is available on the same WG wiki page (see above for link).
  Steve Levy:+1 Phil. Uncertainty around possible results is understandable given the lack of any history witih the policy and the fact that ICANN is not bound to accept the recommendation of the panel.
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the last question should be - did you understand the set of questions?
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:I think the numbers indicate there is not an outpouring of animosity toward the TM-PDDRP - probably indicative of the lack of an identifiable problem.
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Which is one of the questions we had....is there an identifiable problem?
  Mary Wong:@Kristine, yes, that seems to be borne out also by the responses to the 2015 RPM Paper.
  George Kirikos:100% agree with Greg. Garbage in, garbage out.
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1
  Mary Wong:Please recall that the WG discussed and approved these questions.
  Steve Levy:@ Kristine, I agree that it's tough to determine if there is an identifiable problem with a policy that has not yet been used and is very poorly understood by most brad owners.
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):It might be a good idea to discuss the representation next time
  George Kirikos:ICANN paid a company to do the new gTLDs consumer awareness (albeit, it was an internet poll that was pretty bad too).
  George Kirikos:Lots of awareness of new gTLDs that didn't exist. :-)
  George Kirikos:Here's the email from Mary, re: that unused GNSO procedure for a better survey: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2016-October/000727.html
  Jon Nevett (Donuts):I don't support more surveying on PDDRP for the reasons Kathy is mentioning -- we would just be wasting our time
  Greg Shatan:I am not necessarily saying this should be the candidate for an "expert" survey effort....
  Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Agree with Greg.  I think there is a difference between the WG trying to get information and the wording of a valid survey designed to obtain that information.  In my opinion, as a WG we did the former.  We need an expert to do the latter. I don't necessarily think we need to go back here.  But definitely support obtaining resources on any surveys going forward.
  David Maher:@Jo n   +1
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Jon +1
  Greg Shatan:It is not a "general interest" topic, but there may be ways to get more answers from the population who gives a darn...
  Greg Shatan:Not that I'm suggesting it, but this is probably a better candidate for a "focus group" rather than a "survey"....
  Steve Levy:Lack of awareness may be due to lack of serious problems addressed by the PDDRP. If folks were expreiencing such problems, they would research the matter and, I presume, find the PDDRP.
  George Kirikos:Really, the survey should not even mention the PDDRP -- it should really have been a survey expanding on Question #7. I'm confident 99% of people have never heard of the PDDRP, or any of the myriad acronyms in the ICANN ecosystem.
  Reg Levy - MMX:I think Petter has the right idea if we think we really need this information.
  George Kirikos:i.e. is there a problem that the PDDRP properly solves.
  Greg Shatan:Whether they saw the harm or not does not tell us anything about what they think of the remedy.
  Rebecca Tushnet:+1 to Brian's: no need to add more non-information about non-use
  Steve Levy:+1 Brian
  David Maher:@ Brian  +1
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it is quite hard to resolve future unknown problem :(
  Paul McGrady:I think the big take away from this survey is that we need to improve our future surveys.  I don't think it tells us much else about the substantive topic.
  Jon Nevett (Donuts):I support keeping the RPM -- it does serve a purpose, but there is no evidence that it requires a change. If there ever is a change required, we could go through a PDP at that time.
  Paul McGrady:@Jon - agree.  The RPM itself may be keeping abuses at bay.
  Greg Shatan:After you, Mary.
  Paul McGrady:@Greg - agree.  The survey doesn't provide those sorts of answers.
  Susan Payne:@Greg - agree.  There are RPMs which are being used and we should prioritise those
  Mary Wong:Slides are unsync'ed
  Heather Forrest:To Susan, Paul and Greg's point, in a way perhaps it's unfortunate that TMPDDRP came early in the review
  Jeff Neuman:Sorry....mediation?????
  Mary Wong:Everyone can scroll through the slides.
  Greg Shatan:Agree with Heather, we may want to loop back on this down the road...
  Jeff Neuman:Why are we again looking at mediation?  Sorry....missed that
  Greg Shatan:I think we should look at meditation.  Very calming.
  Heather Forrest:I think looping back could be useful, and we will undoubtedly learn some lessons as we progress that could be useful on revisitation
  Jeff Neuman:Where are those responses?
  Philip Corwin:@Heather & Greg -- Something had to come first. But no RPM is locked in stone, and any can be revisited, inckuding PDDRP, until we deliver the WG report.
  Heather Forrest:I'm not complaining as such, Phil - we're here now and rather than stress about why/how, let's think about how to move forward
  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
  George Kirikos:Bye folks.
  Philip Corwin:Bye all. Safe travel to India!
  Jon Nevett (Donuts):Thanks!
  Robin Gross:thanks, Kathy and all, bye!
  Paul Tattersfield:thanks all bye
  Heather Forrest:Thanks everyone
  Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks Everyone

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