[gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

J. Scott Evans jsevans at adobe.com
Mon Apr 10 22:25:04 UTC 2017


I fundamentally disagree with that premise. Our job on this WG is to identify and fix problems. You should not and, IMHO, cannot assume a problem based on a philosophical bent on an issue. If you cannot identify a problem, the harms caused by the problem, come up with a reasonable solution and come to consensus around the solution: the status quo holds.

J. Scott


[ttps://inside.corp.adobe.com/content/dam/brandcenter/images/image002.gif]

J. Scott Evans

408.536.5336 (tel)

345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544

Director, Associate General Counsel

408.709.6162 (cell)

San Jose, CA, 95110, USA

Adobe. Make It an Experience.

jsevans at adobe.com

www.adobe.com








From: George Kirikos <icann at leap.com>
Date: Monday, April 10, 2017 at 3:17 PM
To: J Scott Evans <jsevans at adobe.com>
Cc: Paul Keating <paul at law.es>, "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham at expedia.com>, "gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

I think Paul Keating is right to argue that we should draw an adverse inference from this failure to be transparent with the TMCH database:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_inference<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAdverse_inference&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caa079686e06f40a8dd4608d4805f669e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274594614225249&sdata=I0qlscXGuj8bSSL507mzfboA96stifEx4mZa3gkmwFo%3D&reserved=0>
Name-calling about who is "bullying" isn't going to be productive (oh, "you are", no "you are", "I'm rubber, you're glue.....")

Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
http://www.leap.com/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caa079686e06f40a8dd4608d4805f669e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274594614225249&sdata=3rQOxJ46DYdFeNTSRDkPmN%2Fcl3n3a8uXxN2N8sN37hE%3D&reserved=0>







On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 6:11 PM, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
I have stated once and I believe others have agreed. The data in the database is confidential. That was a very important point when the TMCH was created. I think your attempt to bully people by saying we have to draw a certain conclusion (one the most surprisingly supports your viewpoint) is the outcome of keeping this information confidential.

J. Scott

[tps://inside.corp.adobe.com/content/dam/brandcenter/images/image002.gif]

J. Scott Evans

408.536.5336 (tel)

345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544

Director, Associate General Counsel

408.709.6162 (cell)

San Jose, CA, 95110, USA

Adobe. Make It an Experience.

jsevans at adobe.com<mailto:jsevans at adobe.com>

www.adobe.com<http://www.adobe.com>








From: <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Keating <paul at law.es<mailto:paul at law.es>>
Date: Monday, April 10, 2017 at 3:05 PM
To: "Michael Graham (ELCA)" <migraham at expedia.com<mailto:migraham at expedia.com>>
Cc: "gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>>

Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

With information like that below, and recognizing that the TMCH sunrise and notice programs were intended to provide a balanced approach:

1.  I fail to see any reason why we should not be allowed to view the database; or

2.  Treat the failure to be transparent as conclusive evidence that the system is being gamed beyond the balance point, thus justifying revision.

I have seen several emails protesting such transparency but although having asked several times, I have never seen any evidence contradicting the facts noted below, or any legal basis for precluding transparency.

I join George in asking that this issue be opened to the air so to speak and that we push for disclosure of the TMCH database so that we can perform our job to determine if the programs are being abused.

Sent from my iPad

On 10 Apr 2017, at 23:27, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham at expedia.com<mailto:migraham at expedia.com>> wrote:
George:

Again, apologies for coming into this conversation late, but could you clarify what you meaning by the term “gaming”?

The only usage I can call to mind in connection with the TMCH would be (1) the acquisition of a trademark registration without actual or intended use of the trademark in order to register the registration in the TMCH, or (2) the fabrication of evidence of Use and its submission to the TMCH in order to entitle one to Sunrise registration.

Michael R. Graham

From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of George Kirikos
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 2:18 PM
To: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

Some more examples of gaming of the TMCH sunrises, via public blog posts:
1. via Kevin Murphy of DomainIncite.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FDomainIncite.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4330c3c36a16480d91ee08d4805dbb94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274587465434210&sdata=99G4tET18KkpYk3Lx7gwqYxXNF%2FAqpwHCfM3QFXtzt8%3D&reserved=0>:

http://domainincite.com/16492-how-one-guy-games-new-gtld-sunrise-periods<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainincite.com%2F16492-how-one-guy-games-new-gtld-sunrise-periods&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4330c3c36a16480d91ee08d4805dbb94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274587465434210&sdata=oKvX%2F%2FaTf71pNw35%2FwIPwHZ1A86CCevwUJe%2BmEprubE%3D&reserved=0>
DIRECT, CLOUD, and SOCIAL
Note the comments below that blog post by John Berryhill, who wrote "…and the attorney who was unable to use her client’s US registration for “PHYSICS” with the inconvenient disclaimer, and who then obtained a late change in the TMCH rules allowing figurative registrations, so that her client could use a foreign logo registration to obtain the TMCH entry for that word… is she an IPC member, Kristina?"
implying that the common term "PHYSICS" might also be gamed, by an IPC member. And there are other comments by him and others on that page that are worth reading.
2. via Konstantinos Zournas of OnlineDomain.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FOnlineDomain.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4330c3c36a16480d91ee08d4805dbb94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274587465434210&sdata=EGiymcbsmEIJ1z3RrWyBvf%2BxZb9%2F7eHx2CCtJjXBw8w%3D&reserved=0>:

http://onlinedomain.com/2014/04/15/legal/fake-trademarks-stealing-generic-domains-in-new-gtld-sunrises/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fonlinedomain.com%2F2014%2F04%2F15%2Flegal%2Ffake-trademarks-stealing-generic-domains-in-new-gtld-sunrises%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4330c3c36a16480d91ee08d4805dbb94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274587465434210&sdata=awb9kdJMn%2Bd8lIsEfbBL1XT1jA9fD3hrikfyw%2Bpqgpw%3D&reserved=0>
regarding CLOUD, SOCIAL, BUILD, BET, VACATION, DISCOUNT, WEDDING and others (...etc.) More than 30 TMs of very common terms are mentioned, and over 300 domains were found by that one blogger. There are 46 comments to that blog post, too.
I renew the call for a public comment period, so that more of these kinds of examples of can be submitted to the working group.

Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
http://www.leap.com/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4330c3c36a16480d91ee08d4805dbb94%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274587465434210&sdata=W3NxAFqGg0UWaOTDZjscJEQ%2BYoy1qWd%2Fp1%2BONVGi9UE%3D&reserved=0>


On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet at law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet at law.georgetown.edu>> wrote:
When you refuse to say what you would count as evidence of a problem, that leaves us with the evidence I, and George, and Bret, and others have offered--if we want to call them "Group 2" TMCH registrants that would make sense to me.

Rebecca Tushnet
Georgetown Law
703 593 6759


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