[IOT] Status of ICANN staff in IOT

Arasteh kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
Fri Dec 7 11:50:06 UTC 2018

Dear Beckie
Active means to override and over representation?
I totally disagree
The staff shall remain in an advisory capacity providing views IF REQUESTED  BY THE NEMBER and not beading  the process

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Dec 2018, at 20:53, Burr, Becky <Becky.Burr at team.neustar> wrote:
> Respectfully to all, and without opining on the substance of the repose issue, I am concerned that we may be imposing general assumptions about the role of staff in policy development on the work of the IRP Implementation Oversight Team without adequate consideration.  The role of Org in this work - which is not traditional policy development - may be fundamentally different.  According to the Bylaws, "An IRP Implementation Oversight Team shall be established in consultation with the Supporting Organizations and Advisory Committees and comprised of members of the global Internet community."  As I recall, when we discussed this (now a long time ago) we collectively determined that it was in fact appropriate for someone from ICANN Legal to be an active part of the discussion.  If we are going to revisit that, perhaps we should do that in a more formal way, in consultation with SOs and ACs, as specified in the bylaws.
> On 12/6/18, 12:17 PM, "IOT on behalf of Arasteh" <iot-bounces at icann.org on behalf of kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>    Dear All
>    I fully support the legitimate comments and request made by Malcolm
>    In addition to the criteria he described   I add  the following
>    Staff and legal people only intervene if and only if a clarification sought by formal members of the group
>    Thus sort of a smoky interaction was and is being observe in other occasions
>    At some other meeting the staff even jumped ahead of the people in the queue and d’Irak without the floor being given to them
>    Regards
>    Kavouss 
>    Sent from my iPhone
>> On 6 Dec 2018, at 13:47, Malcolm Hutty <malcolm at linx.net> wrote:
>> Dear David,
>> I write to confirm for the written record my request as raised in our
>> last meeting.
>> When this group was formed, you took the extraordinary step of including
>> ICANN staff and external counsel as full members of this group:
>> - they are listed as full participants on the group membership page
>> - they are included in quorum counts
>> - they are invited to speak on all issues on an equal basis: that is,
>> not merely to describe the practical effects of matters proposed, but
>> also to opine on the balance of values
>> - they are included in consensus calls
>> In the Board resolution in Barcelona adopting the Interim Supplementary
>> Rules, the Board resolved to urge this group to come to a prompt
>> conclusion on final Supplementary Rules of Procedure.
>> During the Open Forum session, I offered the Board my opinion that we
>> would have completed our work earlier had we not been so split, as a
>> result of the divergent views of the team from ICANN Legal and Jones
>> Day. I asked whether it was normal for ICANN staff and agents to engage
>> in community processes like this one as full participants, and whether
>> there was guidance available.
>> Göran answered my question on behalf of the Board. He stated very
>> clearly and firmly that staff "are not members of the community" and
>> participate as staff support, not a co-participants. He appeared to me
>> to be angry that I was even suggesting that staff would overstep such
>> bounds, and that he had to defend them from such an accusation which he
>> gave every impression as regarding as an unfair accusation of
>> impropriety. He was plainly unaware of your decision.
>> In the light of this response, I request that we revisit the
>> classification of ICANN staff and Jones Day.
>> In my view, it was never proper to regard ICANN Legal and Jones Day as
>> co-equal participants in this group. The matter under discussion is the
>> procedures that apply in a core process for holding ICANN to account:
>> ICANN is plainly irredeemably conflicted.
>> Moreover, the conflict goes beyond the institutional to the personal. An
>> IRP case can only be brought on the basis that ICANN has acted
>> inconsistently with the Bylaws. Usually, ICANN will have taken the
>> advice of its lawyers before acting in a manner that might give rise to
>> such a claim. Accordingly, an IRP case will quite commonly be a direct
>> challenge to the advice that Samantha, Elizabeth and the team have
>> previously given, personally. It is quite wrong to involve them in
>> directly in the decision-making as to how such a challenge can be
>> brought. This is not to impugn their professional integrity: any lawyer
>> would recognise this as an irreconcilable conflict of interests and
>> obligations. Your decision places them in an impossible and untenable
>> position, that fundamentally compromises the legitimacy of this group's
>> output.
>> Now that Göran has confirmed that staff should not be regarded as
>> members of the community for the purpose of participation in community
>> processes, I ask that their status be reclassified as staff support,
>> with the following consequences:
>> - they will not be counted in quorum counts
>> - they will not be included in consensus calls
>> - they will be permitted to attend meetings, and their input sought on
>> factual matters, such as how procedures operate, where that assists the
>> group, but their opinion will be not be sought as to the balance of
>> expedience.
>> Kind Regards,
>> Malcolm Hutty.
>> -- 
>>           Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523
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