[IOT] Draft agreement on Initiation

Wed Mar 1 22:15:16 UTC 2023

A federal court complaint in the US costs about $400 to file.  An ICDR IRP
costs $3750 to file, and then there is a "Final Fee" of $2875 to see their
decision.

[image: Logo]

Mike Rodenbaugh

address:

548 Market Street, Box 55819

San Francisco, CA 94104

email:

mike at rodenbaugh.com

phone:

+1 (415) 738-8087

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 2:00 PM Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mike
> Thanks
> I was nit dure about the factor of 10 times
> Can you give an example of the case or cases treated
> Like you I am nit sure about the fairness of ICANN process
> Regards
> Kavouss
>
> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>
> Le 1 mars 2023 à 22:11, Mike Rodenbaugh <mike at rodenbaugh.com> a écrit :
>
> 
> Hi Kavouss,
>
> There are many differences between IRP and US court processes.  And many
> differences between US court process and other countries' court processes.
> But the two major differences between IRP and all court process are
> mentioned in my last email:  1) the cost to file an IRP is about ten times
> higher than to file a court action; and 2) an IRP panel cannot force ICANN
> to pay money or to do anything at all -- but any court with appropriate
> jurisdiction over ICANN can make an order requiring ICANN to pay money or
> do do anything else the court finds just.
>
> I hope that helps clarify my point here.
>
> Thank you,
> Mike
>
> [image: Logo]
>
> Mike Rodenbaugh
>
> address:
>
> 548 Market Street, Box 55819
>
> San Francisco, CA 94104
>
> email:
>
> mike at rodenbaugh.com
>
> phone:
>
> +1 (415) 738-8087
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:12 PM Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mike,
>> Dear All,
>> The warnning of Mike merits to be carefully looked at.
>> However, I may ask mike to specify the text to which " *I think we
>> should take a stronger position on the filing fee"*
>> We need to know the differences between IRP process and Copurt Process
>> as he indicated  "i*n particular, new gTLD applicants) into the IRP
>> process rather than a court process, by forcing all applicants to promise
>> not to sue ICANN."*
>> Regards
>> Kavouss
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 8:33 PM Mike Rodenbaugh via IOT <iot at icann.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Susan.  I think we should take a stronger position on the filing
>>> fee.  ICANN forces parties (in particular, new gTLD applicants) into the
>>> IRP process rather than a court process, by forcing all applicants to
>>> promise not to sue ICANN.  The filing fee for this alternative process
>>> should not be 10x what it costs to file a court action.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The IRP filing fee should be comparable to a court filing fee, not to
>>> "comparable processes".  There are no truly comparable processes, where the
>>> arbitrators are only allowed to "recommend" ICANN to do something, rather
>>> than make any enforceable orders.  Claimants should not have to pay so
>>> much, for so little, especially given the cost of the alternative that they
>>> are forced to waive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do we have a face-to-face meeting for this group set in Cancun?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> [image: Logo]
>>>
>>> Mike Rodenbaugh
>>>
>>> address:
>>>
>>> 548 Market Street, Box 55819
>>>
>>> San Francisco, CA 94104
>>>
>>> email:
>>>
>>> mike at rodenbaugh.com
>>>
>>> phone:
>>>
>>> +1 (415) 738-8087
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:15 AM Susan Payne via IOT <iot at icann.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Following our last call, I have cleaned up the language of our draft
>>>> agreement on Initiation (formerly our strawperson).  Regarding the amount
>>>> of the filing fee and the comparison to other similar proceedings, given
>>>> the difficulty we had in how best to express this and what would be
>>>> suitable comparators, I have simplified the text a little, removed the
>>>> examples of possible other arbitration fora, and instead focussed on the
>>>> expectation that ICANN will carry out this exercise and set the fee at a
>>>> fair level.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We will, I hope, have our final read through and agree this text on our
>>>> next call.  If you are not able to make the call please do raise any
>>>> objections over email before then if possible.  If there are any proposals
>>>> for substantive changes to the text, please share them over email by close
>>>> of business on Tuesday so that we can all consider prior to our Thursday
>>>> call.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Speak to you next week.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Susan Payne
>>>> Head of Legal Policy
>>>>
>>>> <https://comlaude.com/>
>>>> <image001.png> <https://comlaude.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 28-30 Little Russell Street,
>>>> London WC1A 2HN, UK
>>>> *T* +44 (0) 20 7421 8250
>>>> *Ext* 255
>>>>
>>>> *comlaude.com <http://comlaude.com>*
>>>>
>>>> *<image002.png>* <https://www.linkedin.com/company/com-laude>
>>>> *<image003.png>* <https://twitter.com/comlaude?lang=en>
>>>> *<image004.png>* <https://www.facebook.com/ComLaude/>
>>>>
>>>> <image005.jpg>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the
>>>> intended recipient. They may not be disclosed, used by or copied in any way
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you have received this
>>>> message in error, please return it to the sender (deleting the body of the
>>>> email and attachments in your reply) and immediately and permanently delete
>>>> it. Please note that Com Laude Group Limited (the “Com Laude Group”) does
>>>> not accept any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to
>>>> scan or otherwise check this email and any attachments. The Com Laude Group
>>>> does not accept liability for statements which are clearly the sender's own
>>>> and not made on behalf of the group or one of its member entities. The Com
>>>> Laude Group is a limited company registered in England and Wales with
>>>> company number 10689074 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell
>>>> Street, London, WC1A 2HN England. The Com Laude Group includes Nom-IQ
>>>> Limited t/a Com Laude, a company registered in England and Wales with
>>>> company number 5047655 and registered office at 28-30 Little Russell
>>>> Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Valideus Limited, a company registered in
>>>> England and Wales with company number 6181291 and registered office at
>>>> 28-30 Little Russell Street, London, WC1A 2HN England; Demys Limited, a
>>>> company registered in Scotland with company number SC197176 and registered
>>>> office at 15 William Street, South West Lane, Edinburgh, EH3 7LL Scotland;
>>>> Consonum, Inc. dba Com Laude USA and Valideus USA, a corporation
>>>> incorporated in the State of Washington and principal office address at
>>>> Suite 332, Securities Building, 1904 Third Ave, Seattle, WA 98101; Com
>>>> Laude (Japan) Corporation, a company registered in Japan with company
>>>> number 0100-01-190853 and registered office at 1-3-21 Shinkawa, Chuo-ku,
>>>> Tokyo, 104-0033, Japan; Com Laude Domain ESP S.L.U., a company registered
>>>> in Spain and registered office address at Calle Barcas 2, 2, Valencia,
>>>> 46002, Spain. For further information see www.comlaude.com
>>>> <https://comlaude.com>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> IOT mailing list
>>>> IOT at icann.org
>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
>>>> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
>>>> with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy)
>>>> and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos).
>>>> You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
>>>> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
>>>> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IOT mailing list
>>> IOT at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
>>> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
>>> with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy)
>>> and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos).
>>> You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
>>> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
>>> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/iot/attachments/20230301/17cd7af3/attachment-0001.html>