[IOT] Draft agreement on Initiation

Kavouss Arasteh kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
Wed Mar 1 22:18:48 UTC 2023


thanks


On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 11:15 PM Mike Rodenbaugh <mike at rodenbaugh.com> wrote:

> A federal court complaint in the US costs about $400 to file.  An ICDR IRP
> costs $3750 to file, and then there is a "Final Fee" of $2875 to see their
> decision.
>
> [image: Logo]
>
> Mike Rodenbaugh
>
> address:
>
> 548 Market Street, Box 55819
>
> San Francisco, CA 94104
>
> email:
>
> mike at rodenbaugh.com
>
> phone:
>
> +1 (415) 738-8087
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 2:00 PM Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mike
>> Thanks
>> I was nit dure about the factor of 10 times
>> Can you give an example of the case or cases treated
>> Like you I am nit sure about the fairness of ICANN process
>> Regards
>> Kavouss
>>
>> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>>
>> Le 1 mars 2023 à 22:11, Mike Rodenbaugh <mike at rodenbaugh.com> a écrit :
>>
>> 
>> Hi Kavouss,
>>
>> There are many differences between IRP and US court processes.  And many
>> differences between US court process and other countries' court processes.
>> But the two major differences between IRP and all court process are
>> mentioned in my last email:  1) the cost to file an IRP is about ten times
>> higher than to file a court action; and 2) an IRP panel cannot force ICANN
>> to pay money or to do anything at all -- but any court with appropriate
>> jurisdiction over ICANN can make an order requiring ICANN to pay money or
>> do do anything else the court finds just.
>>
>> I hope that helps clarify my point here.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Mike
>>
>> [image: Logo]
>>
>> Mike Rodenbaugh
>>
>> address:
>>
>> 548 Market Street, Box 55819
>>
>> San Francisco, CA 94104
>>
>> email:
>>
>> mike at rodenbaugh.com
>>
>> phone:
>>
>> +1 (415) 738-8087
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:12 PM Kavouss Arasteh <
>> kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mike,
>>> Dear All,
>>> The warnning of Mike merits to be carefully looked at.
>>> However, I may ask mike to specify the text to which " *I think we
>>> should take a stronger position on the filing fee"*
>>> We need to know the differences between IRP process and Copurt Process
>>> as he indicated  "i*n particular, new gTLD applicants) into the IRP
>>> process rather than a court process, by forcing all applicants to promise
>>> not to sue ICANN."*
>>> Regards
>>> Kavouss
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 8:33 PM Mike Rodenbaugh via IOT <iot at icann.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Susan.  I think we should take a stronger position on the filing
>>>> fee.  ICANN forces parties (in particular, new gTLD applicants) into the
>>>> IRP process rather than a court process, by forcing all applicants to
>>>> promise not to sue ICANN.  The filing fee for this alternative process
>>>> should not be 10x what it costs to file a court action.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The IRP filing fee should be comparable to a court filing fee, not to
>>>> "comparable processes".  There are no truly comparable processes, where the
>>>> arbitrators are only allowed to "recommend" ICANN to do something, rather
>>>> than make any enforceable orders.  Claimants should not have to pay so
>>>> much, for so little, especially given the cost of the alternative that they
>>>> are forced to waive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do we have a face-to-face meeting for this group set in Cancun?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> [image: Logo]
>>>>
>>>> Mike Rodenbaugh
>>>>
>>>> address:
>>>>
>>>> 548 Market Street, Box 55819
>>>>
>>>> San Francisco, CA 94104
>>>>
>>>> email:
>>>>
>>>> mike at rodenbaugh.com
>>>>
>>>> phone:
>>>>
>>>> +1 (415) 738-8087
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:15 AM Susan Payne via IOT <iot at icann.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Following our last call, I have cleaned up the language of our draft
>>>>> agreement on Initiation (formerly our strawperson).  Regarding the amount
>>>>> of the filing fee and the comparison to other similar proceedings, given
>>>>> the difficulty we had in how best to express this and what would be
>>>>> suitable comparators, I have simplified the text a little, removed the
>>>>> examples of possible other arbitration fora, and instead focussed on the
>>>>> expectation that ICANN will carry out this exercise and set the fee at a
>>>>> fair level.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We will, I hope, have our final read through and agree this text on
>>>>> our next call.  If you are not able to make the call please do raise any
>>>>> objections over email before then if possible.  If there are any proposals
>>>>> for substantive changes to the text, please share them over email by close
>>>>> of business on Tuesday so that we can all consider prior to our Thursday
>>>>> call.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Speak to you next week.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Susan Payne
>>>>> Head of Legal Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://comlaude.com/>
>>>>> <image001.png> <https://comlaude.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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