[RDS-WHOIS2-RT] Comments about the Subgroup Report of Privacy/Proxy Services

Mon Jun 11 16:01:33 UTC 2018

Hi Susan,

I still feel this is premature. Even if the rec is 6 years old, the PDP 
recommendations are still very fresh not even implemented yet. The GNSO 
council has approved them as has the board and a broad community consensus.

I also have an issue with your assumption that we know who our customer 
is. We don't. We never met most of them. Most of them do not even have 
an account with us and pay their direct provider instead. We cannot 
"ensure" accuracy anymore than we can "ensure" a winning lottery ticket. 
All we can ensure is that the data meets a certain format (validation) 
and either email or phone number (usually email) works at the time the 
domain is registered (verification).

To provide the data entrusted by the registrant to us to ICANN for 
anything but the agreed purpose would violate that trust. They certainly 
do not have a legitimate interest in that particular set of data that 
outweighs that particular registrants interest in privacy.

Best,

Volker

Am 07.06.2018 um 19:20 schrieb Susan Kawaguchi:
> Hi Volker
>
> I disagree that our only option is to say thank you.  This 
> recommendation is 6 years old so it would make sense that as an RT we 
> would review the policy created by the PDP and make a recommendation 
> in view of what has transpired in the last 6 years.
>
> The Temp Spec addresses accuracy of data.  What is being recommended 
> is that a registrar treat the underlying registrant data the same way 
> it is required to validate registrant data now.  A registrar knows who 
> their customer is and can ensure that the data under the PP is 
> accurate without disclosing that to the world.
>
> Your claim this would violate the underlying registrant's privacy I do 
> not follow that line of thinking at all.
>
> We should continue to discuss this recommendation.
>
> Susan
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Volker Greimann 
> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
>     I do not support any attempt to introduce an obligation for
>     service providers to violate the privacy of their customers simply
>     for purposes of "checks".
>
>     The PPSAI WG has made very specific decisions regarding the
>     obligations of service providers regarding data quality. It is not
>     our place to question these decisions which have been approved by
>     the GNSO and the board and are now on their final stretch of
>     implementation.
>
>     Our report should only say: "thank you ICANN, job well done!"
>
>     Anything beyond that is a job for the review of the policy after
>     it has been implemented for a while.
>
>     Volker
>
>
>     Am 06.06.2018 um 20:21 schrieb Carlton Samuels:
>>     Hi Lili:
>>     See my comments in line.
>>
>>
>>     ==============================
>>     /Carlton A Samuels/
>>     /Mobile: 876-818-1799
>>     Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
>>     =============================
>>
>>     On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 10:21 PM, SUN Lili <L.SUN at interpol.int
>>     <mailto:L.SUN at interpol.int>> wrote:
>>
>>         Dear Privacy & Proxy subgroup members,
>>
>>         I went through the draft report of this subgroup on wiki page
>>         (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=71604717
>>         <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=71604717>)
>>         and step in with my concerns:
>>
>>         1.To the Data Accuracy subgroup, the Whois accuracy of domain
>>         names that utilize Privacy and Proxy Services is invisible.
>>         And Volker also mentioned that this will be dealt with in the
>>         Privacy & Proxy subgroup.
>>
>>     Under current rules, the accredited P/P provider is obliged to
>>     ensure contactability of customer of his service. That this is
>>     the case cannot be verified independently and some of us have
>>     argued from inception this is a major hole in the agreement. We
>>     have alternately argued that there should be graded penalties for
>>     this violation after the fact.
>>
>>         As such, I strongly support Susan’s comments on “6 Conducting
>>         periodic due diligence checks on customer contact
>>         information” and “8 Providing clear and unambiguous guidance
>>         on the rights and responsibilities of registered name
>>         holders, and how those should be managed in the privacy/proxy
>>         environment.” There is no reason for a customer who chose P/P
>>         service thus been protected from responsibilities.
>>
>>     See above. We expect that the risk triage will allow the cost of
>>     violation to pass to the customer.
>>
>>         2.There is no indication about the legacy domain names that
>>         utilize P/P Services before the provider been accredited.
>>         Will it be a similar situation as Grandfathered domains?
>>
>>     Some of us have argued that there should be a Privacy/Proxy Data
>>     Accuracy Reminder policy along the line of the WHOIS Data
>>     reminder. It was not accepted. But there is no reason the P/P
>>     provider cannot be obliged and bound to it in terms of the
>>     accreditation for renewals. 
>>
>>         3.Like the example I gave during the 2^nd F2F meeting, if
>>         there is not enough regulation and overseeing in place, P/P
>>         service is very likely to be abused. To be clear, I
>>         elaborated the example in a word document (see attached). Do
>>         we really need this kind of fake prosperity of domain industry?
>>
>>         A response from this subgroup is much appreciated.
>>
>>     Best,
>>     -Carlton
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>
>>         Lili
>>
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>
>     -- 
>     Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
>     Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
>     Volker A. Greimann
>     - Rechtsabteilung -
>
>     Key-Systems GmbH
>     Im Oberen Werk 1
>     66386 St. Ingbert
>     Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>     Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>     Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>
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>     --------------------------------------------
>
>     Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     Volker A. Greimann
>     - legal department -
>
>     Key-Systems GmbH
>     Im Oberen Werk 1
>     66386 St. Ingbert
>     Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>     Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>     Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>
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-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

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