philip at trouble.is
Fri Dec 15 23:51:41 UTC 2017
On 2017-12-15 15:07:36 (-0500), Random832 wrote:
>As to the question of Kyiv itself...
>In googling for information on this, I did find the following claim at
>"The request by the Ukrainian government for Kyiv to become the
>standard English spelling has been successful to an extent, with the US
>Board on Geographic Names approving the spelling and the White House
>and UK Foreign Office, among others, using it."
I found that document when I did a search earlier but checking in the
database of the US Board on Geographic Names, I found "Kiev" listed as
the "conventional" spelling and "Kyiv" as "accepted".
I was not able to find an authoritative document from the UK Foreign
Office (and did not check the White House).
>I think (if this is indeed the case), this is a strong argument for
>making the change.
It is a strong argument but I don't think it's strong enough. I would
be a lot more convinced by style guides of a good number of English
language publications adopting the new spelling.
As pointed out earlier in this thread, this has been discussed (to
exhaustion) on the English language Wikipedia talk page on Kiev (sic).
While I'd be hesitant to consider Wikipedia as a reference on many
(most) subjects, I think we can probably trust their judgement on what
places are commonly named.
>Incidentally, this is not without precedent. The following links all
>appear to be the result of similar "transliteration" changes.
>Link Asia/Ashgabat Asia/Ashkhabad
>Link Asia/Kolkata Asia/Calcutta
>Link Asia/Dhaka Asia/Dacca
>Link Asia/Kathmandu Asia/Katmandu
>Link Asia/Macau Asia/Macao
>Link Asia/Yangon Asia/Rangoon
>Link Asia/Thimphu Asia/Thimbu
>Link Asia/Ulaanbaatar Asia/Ulan_Bator
>Link Pacific/Pohnpei Pacific/Ponape
>Link Pacific/Chuuk Pacific/Truk
With the exceptions of Pohnpei and Chuuk (which I rarely encounter at
all) and Yangon, I cannot remember the last time I encountered the old
spellings of any of the places on this list. On the other hand, I
encounter Kiev a lot more often than Kyiv (except in discussions on
renaming it!). That's obviously a very subjective data point though.
I do recall that tzdb changed the links only long after the "modern"
names were undisputably in common use as opposed to when they were
"officially accepted". I feel it would be prudent to stick to that
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