[WP2] slightly revised mission, commitments, core values for discussion later today
Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch
Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch
Thu Jul 23 07:21:08 UTC 2015
"rights" is Tunis terminology, agreed at the highest level by heads of state and government. "rights" in that context probably means rights as between sovereigns (and not vis-a-vis. citizens)... that is, probaly it means the classic public international law perspective.
That should at least be a relevant reference and I'm not sure whether people here would prefer a treaty..,
Anyway the important point is that there is naturally an international dimension to public policy and it's a task/duty/right/obligation... of states to come together and reach agreements on that.
best
Jorge Cancio
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
> Am 23.07.2015 um 08:42 schrieb Avri Doria <avri at acm.org>:
>
> hi,
>
> I believe we can if we remember that GAC advice, which has a critical
> role in informing the debate, is not determinative and that Board action
> and IRP needs to be consistent with the bylaws. While I agree that GAC
> advice does not necessarily need to confine itself to the bylaws, it is
> critical that the organization, at the end of the day, do so.
>
> I must admit, however, that I have difficulty with seeing governments,
> the duty bearers for rights, as actually having rights as governments.
>
> In discussing the Tunis Agenda, and its claim to governmental rights in
> TA 35a, it is important to remember that this was not a multistakeholder
> document and that its designation of roles and responsibilities is still
> a matter of much contention among other stakeholders - indeed a rather
> lengthy debate that has continued since the uni-stakeholder adoption of
> the Tunis Agenda. It is also important to remember that this document
> does not have the force of treaty.
>
> thanks
>
> avri
>
>
>> On 23-Jul-15 08:16, Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch wrote:
>> A couple of thoughts: there is an international dimension to public policy and within Icann that should be evident - it is understood that this dimension is a shared responsibility for governments, otherwise we would be talking about just national policy which is not the case when talking about Icann.
>>
>> I wonder whether this potentially rather lengthy debate is needed in terms of the ccwg mission at this stage and what exactly triggered the insertion of the wording...
>>
>> a different approach would be to state that governments have rights and responsibilities regarding national and international public policy, trying to stick to internationally agreed language as the Tunis Agenda.
>>
>> best
>>
>> Jorge Cancio
>>
>>
>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>
>>> Am 23.07.2015 um 05:38 schrieb Avri Doria <avri at acm.org>:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This has long been a sticking point in international discussions.
>>>
>>> The governments are by and large unwilling to accept the limitation that
>>> their sovreignity applies only witin their national borders. They have
>>> argued in other venues, that given that they meet together as
>>> sovereigns, when they reach consensus, they have resposnbility for
>>> global public policy.
>>>
>>> This is essentially true on anything that reaches the level of global
>>> treaty, which is then signed and ratified. I believe the GAC assumes
>>> the same power for its decisions.
>>>
>>> avri
>>>
>>>> On 22-Jul-15 18:52, Greg Shatan wrote:
>>>> I think the rationale was that any particular government or public
>>>> authority is only responsible for public policy within its own
>>>> jurisdiction.
>>>>
>>>> Thus, that would mean that governments and public authorities are only
>>>> responsible for public policy within their respective jurisdictions.
>>>>
>>>> Without this addition, one could read the original statement to
>>>> propose that any government or grouping of governments can take on a
>>>> public policy issue, without being limited to their jurisdiction or
>>>> jurisdiction(s).
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Mathieu Weill
>>>> <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Becky,
>>>>
>>>> I remember some pushback from the right side of the room on the
>>>> jurisdiction but am not sure who. Someone reminded me privately of
>>>> this part of the Tunis agenda, which specifically does not mention
>>>> this : « Policy authority for Internet-related public policy
>>>> issues is the sovereign right of States. They have rights and
>>>> responsibilities for international Internet-related public policy
>>>> issues. » (para 35 I think).
>>>>
>>>> But as I said, my main concern so far is that I am unable to
>>>> locate our own rationale for that proposal. We were also
>>>> challenged about not providing the rationale for our core value
>>>> changes. I'd like to help bridging this gap.
>>>>
>>>> So if someone could expand about why they feel so strongly about it ?
>>>>
>>>> Mathieu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 22/07/2015 18:12, Burr, Becky a écrit :
>>>>> The suggestion for using ATRT language is a good one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t remember pushback on the "within their respective
>>>>> jurisdictions" language in Paris – and I would have because
>>>>> several members of WP2 feel very strongly about this point.
>>>>>
>>>>> J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>>
>>>>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>>
>>>>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>>
>>>>> Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:
>>>>> +1.202.352.6367 <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
>>>>> <http://www.neustar.biz>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
>>>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>
>>>>> Reply-To: "Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr
>>>>> <mailto:Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr>" <Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr
>>>>> <mailto:Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr>>
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:43 AM
>>>>> To: Becky Burr <becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz>>, Robin Gross
>>>>> <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>>
>>>>> Cc: "wp2 at icann.org <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>" <wp2 at icann.org
>>>>> <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WP2] slightly revised mission, commitments, core
>>>>> values for discussion later today
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear WP2 colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to thank all of you for trying very hard to find agreement
>>>>> on all these topics. I appreciate how everyone is keeping an open
>>>>> mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I may have missed this in the discussions but what is the
>>>>> rationale for inserting the words "within their respective
>>>>> jurisdictions" in Core Value 7 (ex-11). I remember we had some
>>>>> pushback on this in Paris.
>>>>>
>>>>>> While remaining rooted in the [private sector], including
>>>>>> business stakeholders, civil society, the technical community,
>>>>>> and academia, recognizing that governments and public
>>>>>> authorities are responsible for public policy _within their
>>>>>> respective jurisdictions_ and duly taking into account the
>>>>>> public policy advice of governments and public authorities
>>>>> The proposed addition in Article XI of the sentence below is
>>>>> also attracting some pushback.
>>>>>> or where the Advisory Committee has not explained the specific
>>>>>> reason(s) for its advice.
>>>>> My personal view is that it may not be most appropriate to have
>>>>> this criteria in the same sentence and at the same level as "not
>>>>> exceeding the Mission".
>>>>>
>>>>> I also wonder whether we could find ATRT agreed language on the
>>>>> provision of rationales in support of advice. It seemed to me
>>>>> that these reviews had contributed to significant improvements in
>>>>> that regard and the use of "agreed language" often helps when
>>>>> time is short.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 21/07/2015 20:43, Burr, Becky a écrit :
>>>>>> Whoops, apologies – will fix that in the discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:
>>>>>> +1.202.352.6367
>>>>>> <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
>>>>>> <http://www.neustar.biz>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>>
>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 2:36 PM
>>>>>> To: Becky Burr <becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz>>
>>>>>> Cc: "wp2 at icann.org <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>" <wp2 at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WP2] slightly revised mission, commitments, core
>>>>>> values for discussion later today
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks good - except it is missing the critical word of "not".
>>>>>> So it should read:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /[...] ICANN shall have no authority to act or refrain from
>>>>>> acting in response to inputadvice from an Advisory Committee
>>>>>> where such advice would require ICANN to exceed its Mission or
>>>>>> violate these Bylaws or where the Advisory Committee has not
>>>>>> explained the specific reason(s) for its advice./
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Burr, Becky wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>>>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>>>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>>>> Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:
>>>>>>> +1.202.352.6367
>>>>>>> <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>>> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
>>>>>>> <http://www.neustar.biz>
>>>>>>> <7-21 Mission and Core Values
>>>>>>> V2.docx>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>> *****************************
>>>>> Mathieu WEILL
>>>>> AFNIC - directeur général
>>>>> Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 <tel:%2B33%201%2039%2030%2083%2006>
>>>>> mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>>>>> Twitter : @mathieuweill
>>>>> *****************************
>>>> --
>>>> *****************************
>>>> Mathieu WEILL
>>>> AFNIC - directeur général
>>>> Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 <tel:%2B33%201%2039%2030%2083%2006>
>>>> mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>>>> Twitter : @mathieuweill
>>>> *****************************
>>>>
>>>>
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