[WP2] slightly revised mission, commitments, core values for discussion later today

Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch
Thu Jul 23 07:21:08 UTC 2015


"rights" is Tunis terminology, agreed at the highest level by heads of state and government. "rights" in that context probably means rights as between sovereigns (and not vis-a-vis. citizens)... that is, probaly it means the classic public international law perspective.

That should at least be a relevant reference and I'm not sure whether people here would prefer a treaty..,

Anyway the important point is that there is naturally an international dimension to public policy and it's a task/duty/right/obligation... of states to come together and reach agreements on that.

best

Jorge Cancio 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 23.07.2015 um 08:42 schrieb Avri Doria <avri at acm.org>:
> 
> hi,
> 
> I believe we can if we remember that GAC advice, which has a critical
> role in informing the debate, is not determinative and that Board action
> and IRP needs to be consistent with the bylaws.   While I agree that GAC
> advice does not necessarily need to confine itself to the bylaws, it is
> critical that the organization, at the end of the day, do so.
> 
> I must admit, however, that I have difficulty with seeing governments,
> the duty bearers for rights, as actually having rights as governments. 
> 
> In discussing the Tunis Agenda, and its claim to governmental rights in
> TA 35a, it is important to remember that this was not a multistakeholder
> document and that its designation of roles and responsibilities is still
> a matter of much contention among other stakeholders - indeed a rather
> lengthy debate that has continued since the uni-stakeholder adoption of
> the Tunis Agenda.  It is also important to remember that this document
> does not have the force of treaty.
> 
> thanks
> 
> avri
> 
> 
>> On 23-Jul-15 08:16, Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch wrote:
>> A couple of thoughts: there is an international dimension to public policy and within Icann that should be evident - it is understood that this dimension is a shared responsibility for governments, otherwise we would be talking about just national policy which is not the case when talking about Icann.
>> 
>> I wonder whether this potentially rather lengthy debate is needed in terms of the ccwg mission at this stage and what exactly triggered the insertion of the wording...
>> 
>> a different approach would be to state that governments have rights and responsibilities regarding national and international public policy, trying to stick to internationally agreed language as the Tunis Agenda.
>> 
>> best
>> 
>> Jorge Cancio
>> 
>> 
>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>> 
>>> Am 23.07.2015 um 05:38 schrieb Avri Doria <avri at acm.org>:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> This has long been a sticking point in international discussions.
>>> 
>>> The governments are by and large unwilling to accept the limitation that
>>> their sovreignity applies only witin their national borders.  They have
>>> argued in other venues, that given that they meet together as
>>> sovereigns, when they reach consensus, they have resposnbility for
>>> global public policy.
>>> 
>>> This is essentially true on anything that reaches the level of global
>>> treaty, which is then signed and ratified.  I believe the GAC assumes
>>> the same power for its decisions.
>>> 
>>> avri
>>> 
>>>> On 22-Jul-15 18:52, Greg Shatan wrote:
>>>> I think the rationale was that any particular government or public
>>>> authority is only responsible for public policy within its own
>>>> jurisdiction.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus, that would mean that governments and public authorities are only
>>>> responsible for public policy within their respective jurisdictions.
>>>> 
>>>> Without this addition, one could read the original statement to
>>>> propose that any government or grouping of governments can take on a
>>>> public policy issue, without being limited to their jurisdiction or
>>>> jurisdiction(s).
>>>> 
>>>> Greg
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Mathieu Weill
>>>> <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>   Thanks Becky,
>>>> 
>>>>   I remember some pushback from the right side of the room on the
>>>>   jurisdiction but am not sure who. Someone reminded me privately of
>>>>   this part of the Tunis agenda, which specifically does not mention
>>>>   this : « Policy authority for Internet-related public policy
>>>>   issues is the sovereign right of States. They have rights and
>>>>   responsibilities for international Internet-related public policy
>>>>   issues. » (para 35 I think).
>>>> 
>>>>   But as I said, my main concern so far is that I am unable to
>>>>   locate our own rationale for that proposal. We were also
>>>>   challenged about not providing the rationale for our core value
>>>>   changes. I'd like to help bridging this gap.
>>>> 
>>>>   So if someone could expand about why they feel so strongly about it ?
>>>> 
>>>>   Mathieu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   Le 22/07/2015 18:12, Burr, Becky a écrit :
>>>>>   The suggestion for using ATRT language is a good one.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I don’t remember pushback on the "within their respective
>>>>>   jurisdictions" language in Paris – and I would have because
>>>>>   several members of WP2 feel very strongly about this point.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>> 
>>>>>   *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>> 
>>>>>   1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932>  Mobile: 
>>>>>   +1.202.352.6367 <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367>  / becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>   <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
>>>>>   <http://www.neustar.biz>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   From: Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
>>>>>   <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>
>>>>>   Reply-To: "Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr
>>>>>   <mailto:Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr>" <Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr
>>>>>   <mailto:Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr>>
>>>>>   Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:43 AM
>>>>>   To: Becky Burr <becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>   <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz>>, Robin Gross
>>>>>   <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>>
>>>>>   Cc: "wp2 at icann.org <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>" <wp2 at icann.org
>>>>>   <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>>
>>>>>   Subject: Re: [WP2] slightly revised mission, commitments, core
>>>>>   values for discussion later today
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Dear WP2 colleagues,
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I want to thank all of you for trying very hard to find agreement
>>>>>   on all these topics. I appreciate how everyone is keeping an open
>>>>>   mind.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I may have missed this in the discussions but what is the
>>>>>   rationale for inserting the words "within their respective
>>>>>   jurisdictions" in Core Value 7 (ex-11). I remember we had some
>>>>>   pushback on this in Paris.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>   While remaining rooted in the [private sector], including
>>>>>>   business stakeholders, civil society, the technical community,
>>>>>>   and academia, recognizing that governments and public
>>>>>>   authorities are responsible for public policy _within their
>>>>>>   respective jurisdictions_ and duly taking into account the
>>>>>>   public policy advice of governments and public authorities
>>>>>   The proposed addition in Article XI  of the sentence below is
>>>>>   also attracting some pushback.
>>>>>>   or where the Advisory Committee has not explained the specific
>>>>>>   reason(s) for its advice.
>>>>>   My personal view is that it may not be most appropriate to have
>>>>>   this criteria in the same sentence and at the same level as "not
>>>>>   exceeding the Mission".
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I also wonder whether we could find ATRT agreed language on the
>>>>>   provision of rationales in support of advice. It seemed to me
>>>>>   that these reviews had contributed to significant improvements in
>>>>>   that regard and the use of "agreed language" often helps when
>>>>>   time is short.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Le 21/07/2015 20:43, Burr, Becky a écrit :
>>>>>>   Whoops, apologies – will fix that in the discussion
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile: 
>>>>>>   +1.202.352.6367
>>>>>>   <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367>  / becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>>   <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
>>>>>>   <http://www.neustar.biz>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   From: Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>>
>>>>>>   Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 2:36 PM
>>>>>>   To: Becky Burr <becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>>   <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz>>
>>>>>>   Cc: "wp2 at icann.org <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>" <wp2 at icann.org
>>>>>>   <mailto:wp2 at icann.org>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Subject: Re: [WP2] slightly revised mission, commitments, core
>>>>>>   values for discussion later today
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Looks good - except it is missing the critical word of "not". 
>>>>>>   So it should read:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   /[...] ICANN shall have no authority to act or refrain from
>>>>>>   acting in response to inputadvice from an Advisory Committee
>>>>>>   where such advice would require ICANN to exceed its Mission or
>>>>>>   violate these Bylaws or where the Advisory Committee has not
>>>>>>   explained the specific reason(s) for its advice./ 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Thank you,
>>>>>>   Robin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   On Jul 21, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Burr, Becky wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>>>>   *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>>>>   1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>>>>   Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932>  Mobile: 
>>>>>>>   +1.202.352.6367
>>>>>>>   <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / becky.burr at neustar.biz
>>>>>>>   <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
>>>>>>>   <http://www.neustar.biz>
>>>>>>>   <7-21 Mission and Core Values
>>>>>>>   V2.docx>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>   -- 
>>>>>   *****************************
>>>>>   Mathieu WEILL
>>>>>   AFNIC - directeur général
>>>>>   Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 <tel:%2B33%201%2039%2030%2083%2006>
>>>>>   mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>>>>>   Twitter : @mathieuweill
>>>>>   *****************************
>>>>   -- 
>>>>   *****************************
>>>>   Mathieu WEILL
>>>>   AFNIC - directeur général
>>>>   Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 <tel:%2B33%201%2039%2030%2083%2006>
>>>>   mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>>>>   Twitter : @mathieuweill
>>>>   *****************************
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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