[Wp4] Fwd: Re: [] Variety of formulation for Human Rights bylaw that were made. - corrected

[Nigel Roberts]

Greg

This is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I wrote my earlier email.

Very well put.


Nigel


On 08/06/2015 07:28 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
> I think we need to do more than just wordsmith a simple statement if its
> going to be a part of ICANN's core values in the ICANN bylaws.  The
> bylaws provision is just the tip of the iceberg.  We need to have a
> common understanding of what we mean and what existing human rights
> standards (declarations, conventions, etc.) we are referring to, and we
> need to have a sense of the consequences (intended and otherwise) of our
> efforts.  Some of us may have spent many years and many hours working
> with and getting to understand the human rights landscape; others have
> not.  Some of us may say we know what we mean when we refer to human
> rights.  That's not enough.  We all need to know what we mean, and we
> need to know that we mean basically the same thing.  This doesn't have
> to be exhaustive (or exhausting).
>
> There's certain a lot of work that can be put into WS2, in terms of
> fleshing things out, considering issues such as impacts assessments,
> reviews, etc.  But we can't just stop with a statement and leave its
> meaning for WS2.  Otherwise, we are just buying a pig in a poke.*
>
> Greg
> ________
> * Recognizing this is a somewhat culturally specific term, I offer a
> brief explanation. "Poke" is an archaic term for a bag, the advice
> literally being given is 'don't buy a pig until you have seen it.' Per
> Wikipedia, "The phrase can also be applied to accepting an idea or plan
> without a full understanding of its basis."  In the English language,
> this can be traced back to at least 1530:
>
>     /Fraser's Magazine,/ 1858, reprinted a piece from Richard Hill's (or
>     Hilles') /Common-place Book/, 1530, which gave this advice to market
>     traders:
>     "When ye proffer the pigge open the poke."
>     http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-pig-in-a-poke.html
>
>
> NB:  This is apparently not the same Richard Hill dealt with from time
> to time in these and other lists. It is presumably a complete
> coincidence that the said Mr. Hill's organization is called APIG.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Dr Eberhard Lisse <el at lisse.na
> <mailto:el at lisse.na>> wrote:
>
>     Avri,
>
>     I am in full agreement with you.
>
>     We need something we can all live with in WS1 and can sort out the
>     casualties in WS2, if any.
>
>     el
>
>     On 2015-08-06 17:40, Avri Doria wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > In this case I think there may be a number of solutions that are
>     > right, especially when we remember all we are trying to do for WS1
>     > is to record a bylaws commitment to respect human rights in the
>     > work ICANN does.  We are not trying to solve all the complex of
>     > issues that we may want too bring up.  We need to find a way to
>     > just pick one.
>     >
>     > I really think trying to wordsmith as simple a statement as
>     > possible is still out best alternative.
>     >
>     > Though I can think of no better reason to miss our deadlines than
>     > a discussion of ICANN's Corporate responsibility to respect human
>     > rights, something I think I could work on forever, it would be
>     > nice if we didn't miss the deadline because of the discussion.
>     > But if we do miss the deadline, that's life.  We have seen that
>     > the sky does not fall when a deadline is missed.  And this is
>     > important.
>     >
>     > avri
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On 06-Aug-15 09:25, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
>     >> Avri,
>     >>
>     >> we need to get this right.
>     >>
>     >> We are not going to let the outcome dictated by arbitrary and
>     >> self imposed time frames.
>     >>
>     >> el
>     [...]
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