[Wp4] Fwd: Re: [] Variety of formulation for Human Rights bylaw that were made. - corrected

[Dr Eberhard W Lisse]

Speaking from experience of (fortunately only 2 years) having lived in a racist dictatorship, I know human rights when I see them :-)-O

But so far we all seem to be in agreement. Nice going...

el

-- 
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini

> On Aug 6, 2015, at 19:28, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think we need to do more than just wordsmith a simple statement if its going to be a part of ICANN's core values in the ICANN bylaws.  The bylaws provision is just the tip of the iceberg.  We need to have a common understanding of what we mean and what existing human rights standards (declarations, conventions, etc.) we are referring to, and we need to have a sense of the consequences (intended and otherwise) of our efforts.  Some of us may have spent many years and many hours working with and getting to understand the human rights landscape; others have not.  Some of us may say we know what we mean when we refer to human rights.  That's not enough.  We all need to know what we mean, and we need to know that we mean basically the same thing.  This doesn't have to be exhaustive (or exhausting).
> 
> There's certain a lot of work that can be put into WS2, in terms of fleshing things out, considering issues such as impacts assessments, reviews, etc.  But we can't just stop with a statement and leave its meaning for WS2.  Otherwise, we are just buying a pig in a poke.* 
> 
> Greg
> ________
> * Recognizing this is a somewhat culturally specific term, I offer a brief explanation. "Poke" is an archaic term for a bag, the advice literally being given is 'don't buy a pig until you have seen it.'  Per Wikipedia, "The phrase can also be applied to accepting an idea or plan without a full understanding of its basis."  In the English language, this can be traced back to at least 1530:  
> 
>> Fraser's Magazine, 1858, reprinted a piece from Richard Hill's (or Hilles') Common-place Book, 1530, which gave this advice to market traders:
>> "When ye proffer the pigge open the poke."  http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-pig-in-a-poke.html
> 
> NB:  This is apparently not the same Richard Hill dealt with from time to time in these and other lists. It is presumably a complete coincidence that the said Mr. Hill's organization is called APIG. 
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Dr Eberhard Lisse <el at lisse.na> wrote:
>> Avri,
>> 
>> I am in full agreement with you.
>> 
>> We need something we can all live with in WS1 and can sort out the
>> casualties in WS2, if any.
>> 
>> el
>> 
>> On 2015-08-06 17:40, Avri Doria wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > In this case I think there may be a number of solutions that are
>> > right, especially when we remember all we are trying to do for WS1
>> > is to record a bylaws commitment to respect human rights in the
>> > work ICANN does.  We are not trying to solve all the complex of
>> > issues that we may want too bring up.  We need to find a way to
>> > just pick one.
>> >
>> > I really think trying to wordsmith as simple a statement as
>> > possible is still out best alternative.
>> >
>> > Though I can think of no better reason to miss our deadlines than
>> > a discussion of ICANN's Corporate responsibility to respect human
>> > rights, something I think I could work on forever, it would be
>> > nice if we didn't miss the deadline because of the discussion.
>> > But if we do miss the deadline, that's life.  We have seen that
>> > the sky does not fall when a deadline is missed.  And this is
>> > important.
>> >
>> > avri
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 06-Aug-15 09:25, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
>> >> Avri,
>> >>
>> >> we need to get this right.
>> >>
>> >> We are not going to let the outcome dictated by arbitrary and
>> >> self imposed time frames.
>> >>
>> >> el
>> [...]
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