[Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
avri doria
avri at apc.org
Wed Feb 22 23:15:08 UTC 2017
Hi,
That may the case with some technical skills, but even then I would not
doubt that there are technically skilled people in the South. But in
policy that requires an understanding of more that just the technical
details, there is no way the the north understands or is more skilled
than the South. As for any of the other skills like organizational,
economic or law, North, South East or West, seem to be equally skilled
and experienced, especially when it comes to specialized knowledge about
these things in their regions.
avri
On 22-Feb-17 10:43, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> Hello Avri,
>
> I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in
> regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower
> penetration.
> In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more
> skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar
> organisation.
>
> So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based
> solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence
> skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two
> items would play a role in ensuring true diversity.
>
> Regards
> Sent from my LG G4
> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>
> On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri at acm.org
> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global
> North. I
> think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of
> skills and experience.
>
> avri
>
> On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
> > Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the
> > Diversity Sub-Group.
> >
> > I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or
> > experience requirements.
> > But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of
> > diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In
> fact,
> > as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the
> > north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole
> > diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a
> > large majority from the north and almost none from the south.
> >
> > In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and
> > experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of
> > those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.
> >
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
> > Executive Director
> > Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
> > Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
> > +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >> Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri at acm.org
> <mailto:avri at acm.org>
> >> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.
> >>
> >> **
> >>
> >> *2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a
> reflection of
> >> the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While
> >> acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability
> >> mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that
> diversity
> >> requirement should not prevail over skills or experience
> requirements,
> >> but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that
> skills and
> >> experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an
> essential
> >> element of skills and experience or skill and experience are
> elements of
> >> diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is
> >> essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience
> necessary for
> >> ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently
> >> diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements
> >> necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is
> >> achieved..*
> >>
> >> **
> >>
> >> avri
> >>
> >> On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> just to add that during the last call
> >>>
> (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802
> <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802>),
> >>> we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is
> currently
> >>> in the document, and getting more input on it.
> >>> @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e.
> >>> diversity in skill sets?
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> Rafik
> >>>
> >>> 2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer
> <julie.hammer at bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>
> >>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com
> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>>
> >>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com
> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>>>:
> >>>
> >>> *(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to
> >>> the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*
> >>>
> >>> Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was
> saying
> >>> on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be
> representing
> >>> this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills
> sets
> >>> ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we
> should
> >>> be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever
> >>> context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I
> think that
> >>> the argument "they just don't have the
> >>> skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those
> >>> proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of
> >>> having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have
> >>> different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups
> benefit
> >>> from having a range of skills available.
> >>>
> >>> So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have
> in the
> >>> paragraph in question.
> >>>
> >>> I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Julie
> >>>
> >>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan
> >>> <lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
> >>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>
> >>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation
> persé, I was
> >>> wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right
> place to
> >>> do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to
> >>> all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies
> only
> >>> to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which
> those
> >>> who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse
> >>> candidate: "they just don't have the
> >>> skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to
> those who
> >>> do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in
> >>> favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so
> >>> that resistance becomes negligible.
> >>> It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills
> trump
> >>> diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that
> >>> this is a false dichotomy.
> >>> On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have
> >>> often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the
> >>> arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for
> abuse
> >>> of this "escape clause ".
> >>> I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent
> person from
> >>> for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a
> leadership
> >>> position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills
> >>> argument, it can be helpful to call this out.
> >>> The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we
> >>> should be educating and grooming enough people in the
> pipeline so
> >>> that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point
> in the
> >>> future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?)
> >>> In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful:
> it will
> >>> encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity
> >>> throughout the organization, board and the community. Once
> we have
> >>> identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put
> resources in
> >>> those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of
> >>> qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant.
> >>> Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen!
> >>> Lousewies
> >>>
> >>> ……
> >>> Sent from my phone.
> >>> Lousewies van der Laan
> >>>
> >>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga at kixp.or.ke
> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>
> >>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>
> >>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Mathieu
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased
> diversity can
> >>>> actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but
> the pair
> >>>> of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of
> >>>> skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it
> be based
> >>>> purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a
> >>>> combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important
> >>>> discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kind regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Fiona Asonga
> >>>>
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
> >>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>
> >>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>>
> >>>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com
> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
> >>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>
> >>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com
> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan"
> >>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>
> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>>
> >>>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity at icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>
> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>>
> >>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM
> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Colleagues,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but
> >>>> congratulate the group on the progress on the document.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following
> sentence :
> >>>> “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the
> >>>> accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their
> >>>> view that diversity requirement should not prevail over
> skills or
> >>>> experience requirements.”
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand
> where
> >>>> she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue
> with it
> >>>> : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to
> be made
> >>>> between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I
> do not
> >>>> share this view. I contend that increased diversity would
> >>>> actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> What do other group members think about it ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to
> >>>> detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in
> terms of
> >>>> skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>> Mathieu
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> *De :* ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>
> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>>
> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>>
> >>>> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>
> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>>] *De la part de* Rafik
> >>>> Dammak
> >>>> *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03
> >>>> *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan
> >>>> *Cc :* ws2-diversity at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>
> >>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>>
> >>>> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Lousewies,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the comments!
> >>>> I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can
> >>>> comment
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>
> >>>>
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>
> >>>> ,
> >>>> the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion
> >>>> mode, so you can propose edits and changes.
> >>>> I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the
> >>>> document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in
> >>>> coming days.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Rafik
> >>>>
> >>>> 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan
> >>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>
> >>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>>:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear all,
> >>>> Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as
> board
> >>>> liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the
> >>>> liberty to make some small comments in the document in a
> personal
> >>>> capacity. Hope its useful.
> >>>> I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen.
> >>>> best, Lousewies
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga at kixp.or.ke
> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>
> >>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>
> >>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hallo All
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity
> >>>> report with consolidated views that have bee shared and
> discussed
> >>>> so far on diversity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>
> >>>>
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we
> >>>> have considered the input but would like another round of
> >>>> discussion on the same.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the
> document.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kind regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Fiona and Rafik
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
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