[Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
avri doria
avri at apc.org
Thu Feb 23 14:31:20 UTC 2017
Hi,
This para on skills is good.
avri
On 22-Feb-17 20:23, Julie Hammer wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> My thinking aligns with Avri’s here. I had been thinking of skills in
> a very broad way, not just technical skills, and so I had viewed that
> seeking diversity in skills allowed for a much more inclusive
> approach. I think it is highly likely that our and Tijani’s
> sentiments are aligned, but that we are looking at this issue from
> different perspectives and so we think we are disagreeing.
>
> I had seen Avri’s amendment to para 2.6 and thought her words were
> good; hence why I did not offer any alternate words. However,
> reacting to Rafik’s request for me to also provide input, I would like
> to offer the following as an alternate para 2.6 for consideration:
>
> 2.6 *Skills:* Diversity in skills contributes to the quality of ICANN
> policy formulation, decision making and outreach. It is important to
> highlight and advocate the advantages of individuals bringing
> different and diverse skills sets into ICANN's many activities. All
> activities and groups within ICANN will benefit from having a diverse
> range of skills available. Outcomes formulated from diverse skills and
> knowledge will have higher probability of being accepted by a diverse
> community. Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a
> choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but
> rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion and
> broad participation.
>
> Cheers, Julie
>
> On 23 Feb 2017, at 9:15 AM, avri doria <avri at apc.org
> <mailto:avri at apc.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> That may the case with some technical skills, but even then I would not
> doubt that there are technically skilled people in the South. But in
> policy that requires an understanding of more that just the technical
> details, there is no way the the north understands or is more skilled
> than the South. As for any of the other skills like organizational,
> economic or law, North, South East or West, seem to be equally skilled
> and experienced, especially when it comes to specialized knowledge about
> these things in their regions.
>
> avri
>
>
> On 22-Feb-17 10:43, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>> Hello Avri,
>>
>> I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in
>> regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower
>> penetration.
>> In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more
>> skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar
>> organisation.
>>
>> So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based
>> solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence
>> skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two
>> items would play a role in ensuring true diversity.
>>
>> Regards
>> Sent from my LG G4
>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global
>> North. I
>> think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of
>> skills and experience.
>>
>> avri
>>
>> On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
>>> Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the
>>> Diversity Sub-Group.
>>>
>>> I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or
>>> experience requirements.
>>> But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of
>>> diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In
>> fact,
>>> as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the
>>> north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole
>>> diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a
>>> large majority from the north and almost none from the south.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and
>>> experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of
>>> those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.
>>>
>>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
>>> Executive Director
>>> Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
>>> Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
>>> +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
>>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>> Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri at acm.org
>>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> *2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a
>> reflection of
>>>> the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While
>>>> acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability
>>>> mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that
>> diversity
>>>> requirement should not prevail over skills or experience
>> requirements,
>>>> but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that
>> skills and
>>>> experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an
>> essential
>>>> element of skills and experience or skill and experience are
>> elements of
>>>> diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is
>>>> essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience
>> necessary for
>>>> ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently
>>>> diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements
>>>> necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is
>>>> achieved..*
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> avri
>>>>
>>>> On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> just to add that during the last call
>>>>>
>> (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802
>> <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802>),
>>>>> we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is
>> currently
>>>>> in the document, and getting more input on it.
>>>>> @Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e.
>>>>> diversity in skill sets?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>
>>>>> 2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer
>> <julie.hammer at bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>
>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>
>>>>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com
>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>>
>>>>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com
>> <mailto:julie.hammer at bigpond.com>>>:
>>>>>
>>>>> *(To Secretariat Staff: would you please release this email to
>>>>> the list. I do not have posting rights. Many thanks.)*
>>>>>
>>>>> Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was
>> saying
>>>>> on the call: I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be
>> representing
>>>>> this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills
>> sets
>>>>> ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we
>> should
>>>>> be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever
>>>>> context we are discussing. In Lousewies’s example, I
>> think that
>>>>> the argument "they just don't have the
>>>>> skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those
>>>>> proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of
>>>>> having diversity IN the skills set. Different people have
>>>>> different skills and I suggest that all situations/groups
>> benefit
>>>>> from having a range of skills available.
>>>>>
>>>>> So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have
>> in the
>>>>> paragraph in question.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan
>>>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>
>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation
>> persé, I was
>>>>> wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right
>> place to
>>>>> do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to
>>>>> all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies
>> only
>>>>> to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which
>> those
>>>>> who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse
>>>>> candidate: "they just don't have the
>>>>> skills/experience/background". It will be comforting to
>> those who
>>>>> do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in
>>>>> favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so
>>>>> that resistance becomes negligible.
>>>>> It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills
>> trump
>>>>> diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that
>>>>> this is a false dichotomy.
>>>>> On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have
>>>>> often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the
>>>>> arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for
>> abuse
>>>>> of this "escape clause ".
>>>>> I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent
>> person from
>>>>> for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a
>> leadership
>>>>> position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills
>>>>> argument, it can be helpful to call this out.
>>>>> The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we
>>>>> should be educating and grooming enough people in the
>> pipeline so
>>>>> that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point
>> in the
>>>>> future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?)
>>>>> In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful:
>> it will
>>>>> encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity
>>>>> throughout the organization, board and the community. Once
>> we have
>>>>> identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put
>> resources in
>>>>> those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of
>>>>> qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant.
>>>>> Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen!
>>>>> Lousewies
>>>>>
>>>>> ……
>>>>> Sent from my phone.
>>>>> Lousewies van der Laan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga at kixp.or.ke
>>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>
>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>
>>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>
>>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Mathieu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased
>> diversity can
>>>>>> actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but
>> the pair
>>>>>> of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of
>>>>>> skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it
>> be based
>>>>>> purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a
>>>>>> combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important
>>>>>> discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fiona Asonga
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
>>>>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>>>>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
>> <mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>>
>>>>>> *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan"
>>>>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>
>>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>>
>>>>>> *Cc: *ws2-diversity at icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>>
>>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but
>>>>>> congratulate the group on the progress on the document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following
>> sentence :
>>>>>> “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the
>>>>>> accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their
>>>>>> view that diversity requirement should not prevail over
>> skills or
>>>>>> experience requirements.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand
>> where
>>>>>> she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue
>> with it
>>>>>> : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to
>> be made
>>>>>> between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I
>> do not
>>>>>> share this view. I contend that increased diversity would
>>>>>> actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do other group members think about it ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to
>>>>>> detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in
>> terms of
>>>>>> skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best
>>>>>> Mathieu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *De :* ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>>
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>>
>>>>>> [mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces at icann.org>>] *De la part de* Rafik
>>>>>> Dammak
>>>>>> *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03
>>>>>> *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan
>>>>>> *Cc :* ws2-diversity at icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org
>> <mailto:ws2-diversity at icann.org>>
>>>>>> *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Lousewies,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the comments!
>>>>>> I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can
>>>>>> comment
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>
>>>>>>
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>> the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion
>>>>>> mode, so you can propose edits and changes.
>>>>>> I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the
>>>>>> document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in
>>>>>> coming days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan
>>>>>> <lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>
>>>>>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org
>> <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan at board.icann.org>>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>> Congratulations on a strong first draft. As you know, as
>> board
>>>>>> liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the
>>>>>> liberty to make some small comments in the document in a
>> personal
>>>>>> capacity. Hope its useful.
>>>>>> I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen.
>>>>>> best, Lousewies
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga at kixp.or.ke
>>>>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>
>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>
>>>>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>
>>>>>> <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga at kixp.or.ke>>>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hallo All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity
>>>>>> report with consolidated views that have bee shared and
>> discussed
>>>>>> so far on diversity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>
>>>>>>
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we
>>>>>> have considered the input but would like another round of
>>>>>> discussion on the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the
>> document.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fiona and Rafik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Ws2-diversity mailing list
>>>>>>> Ws2-diversity at icann.org <mailto:Ws2-diversity at icann.org>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Ws2-diversity at icann.org>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> <mail_signature-new logo.jpg>
>>>>>>
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