[Ws2-hr] Proposed agenda meeting September 27 - 19:00 UTC

Tue Sep 27 17:41:38 UTC 2016

A response on Erich's last point:

WS2-HR should focus on the freedom of communication worldwide, subject to
usual safeguard clauses + the international human rights treaty obligations.

This sounds suspiciously like "cherry-picking" (i.e., picking and choosing
among human rights obligation), and I am firmly opposed to that.  Also
while human rights treaty obligations are relevant (and we need to
determine what we are referring to as such) they do not bind ICANN, except
to the extent they have been adopted and codified by applicable laws.  The
Bylaw doesn't take us further than that.

It is not cherry-picking, it is a suggestion which human rights are
relevant to be considered. Free communication should be the main concern.

You are right that human rights treaties formally do not bind ICANN but
that sound not good in practice. We have to substitute this by
self-commitment, as we do now.

We've been using the term cherry-picking to mean just that -- picking and
choosing, menu-style, from the list of human rights and deciding that some
are going to be considered and some won't.  Whatever you call it, I'm
opposed to it.  I'm not opposed to choosing among human rights conventions
and instruments; indeed, we must do that.  But within, e.g., the UDHR, we
should not be picking, we need to take it whole as a document.   The extent
of ICANN's commitment to human rights is stated in the Bylaw, --  to
*respect* *internationally recognized human rights* *as required by
applicable law*.  This is critical in three ways: (1) ICANN's commitment is
one of "respecting" (and not protecting or enforcing) human rights (and we
need to define what "respect" means in the context of ICANN, which
unfortunately does not align with Ruggie's idea of respect for business
enterprises); (2) ICANN must look to "internationally recognized human
rights" -- no more and no less; and (3) ICANN's commitment is limited to
what is "required by applicable law."  ICANN could go further of course
(e.g., it could ensure there are gluten free food options at every ICANN
meeting and event), but that is not a Bylaws issue and thus not a Framework
of Interpretation issue.

Greg

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Schweighofer Erich <
erich.schweighofer at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> My clarifications „inline“. Sorry for quick drafting and being unclear.
>
> Erich Schweighofer
>
>
>
> *Von:* Greg Shatan [mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com]
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 27. September 2016 17:35
> *An:* Schweighofer Erich
> *Cc:* Niels ten Oever; ws2-hr at icann.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Ws2-hr] Proposed agenda meeting September 27 - 19:00 UTC
>
>
>
> I agree in part and disagree in part:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 6:05 AM, Schweighofer Erich <
> erich.schweighofer at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>
>
> The more I read about Ruggie Principles I am convinced that they do not
> really fit for ICANN.
>
> 
>
> I tend to agree with this.
>
>
>
> The hard legal core of ICANN's obligations is much less, even depending on
> the various jurisdictions.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what this means.  If it means that there are Ruggie
> obligations that don't fit ICANN, then I agree.  Otherwise, this needs
> further explanation.
>
>
>
> Yes – Ruggie do not fit properly. ICANN is essential for a global
> communication platform and must respect related human rights –the “hard
> core”, subject to the interpretation in the various jurisdictions.
>
>
>
> ICANN is inclusive, e.g. also flexible.
>
>
>
> Again not sure what this means.  If this means that ICANN must be
> inclusive of, e.g., New gTLD applicants and ccTLD operators (governments
> and otherwise), whether or not they comply with human rights provision,
> then I agree.  ICANN can't be a human rights filter for the Internet.  If
> this means something else, it needs further explanation. 
>
>
>
> It means that we cannot oblige new gTLD applicants or ccTLD operators to
> comply with human rights above the national interpretation of human rights
> obligations. There are other fora to discuss compliance with human rights
> standards.
>
>
>
> WS2-HR should focus on the freedom of communication worldwide, subject to
> usual safeguard clauses + the international human rights treaty
> obligations.
>
>
>
> This sounds suspiciously like "cherry-picking" (i.e., picking and
> choosing among human rights obligation), and I am firmly opposed to that.
> Also while human rights treaty obligations are relevant (and we need to
> determine what we are referring to as such) they do not bind ICANN,
> except to the extent they have been adopted and codified by applicable
> laws.  The Bylaw doesn't take us further than that.
>
>
>
> It is not cherry-picking, it is a suggestion which human rights are
> relevant to be considered. Free communication should be the main concern.
>
> You are right that human rights treaties formally do not bind ICANN but
> that sound not good in practice. We have to substitute this by
> self-commitment, as we do now.
>
>
>
> In an ethical code of ICANN, we can go much further, and here we can
> re-use Ruggie to some extent.
>
>
>
> An "ethical code of ICANN" is far, far beyond the mandate and scope of
> this subgroup.  Our task is to provide a framework for interpreting the
> Bylaw.
>
>
>
> It is good to work on an idealistic world but we have to realistic, too.
>
>
>
> That I can agree with.
>
> 
>
>
>
> Best, Erich Schweighofer
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: ws2-hr-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ws2-hr-bounces at icann.org] Im
> Auftrag von Niels ten Oever
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. September 2016 11:18
> An: ws2-hr at icann.org
> Betreff: [Ws2-hr] Proposed agenda meeting September 27 - 19:00 UTC
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> Please find underneath and attached the proposed agenda for the call of
> September 27, 19:00 UTC.
>
> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>
> 1. Administrivia
> Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc
> 2. Analysis of Ruggie Principles for ICANN - discussion on UN Guiding
> Principles 15, 13, 19 3. AOB
>
> Best,
>
> Niels
>
>
> --
> Niels ten Oever
> Head of Digital
>
> Article 19
> www.article19.org
>
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>
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