[Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Question Presented (Greg Shatan)
Kavouss Arasteh
kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
Sat Jun 10 16:04:55 UTC 2017
I fully support the remarks made by Thiago and I am confident that several
other participants who have the same views as we two have.
I will speak on this issue in the coming plenary.
By the way , majority and minority has no relevance in this regard
I will also speak on that in the plenary
Regards
Kavouss
2017-06-10 0:46 GMT+02:00 Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira <
thiago.jardim at itamaraty.gov.br>:
> Dear Greg,
>
> It would have been best if you could have sent your question to the group
> prior to the call, and not only as the call was happening. People who were
> not present, and only saw the proposal in their mailing list afterwards,
> might perhaps be misled into thinking that the question you drafted came
> from the group, or that it reflected some degree of consensus within the
> group.
>
> May I highlight, in that context, that you disregarded the suggestion to
> submit Jorge's proposal to the group for consideration. His proposal, which
> I and others seconded, was to have the group discuss the mandate in respect
> of concrete cases, and not develop an ex-ante position in abstract.
>
> As to the question itself, my first observation is that we are not
> supposed to ask anything like this now. As reflected in our revised work
> plan of 24 April 2017, it was agreed that "the Subgroup will identify
> issues before it goes on to explore remedies"; "for each issue, the group
> will then look at proposed remedies"; "the group should not discuss a
> remedy until an issue has been identified that requires discussion of that
> remedy". The question you drafted goes in the opposite direction, as it
> concerns one imaginable remedy (change to ICANN's status or location),
> prior to having identified what are the issues to be discussed by the group.
>
> My second remark is that your proposal makes a couple of assumptions that
> are not accurate nor necessary. For example, in the first bullet point, you
> assume that no form of immunity from domestic jurisdiction is possible for
> ICANN in case it remains an organisation incorporated in California. This
> is not true, as immunity arrangements are possible under different forms.
> Take the ICRC, which has domestic and international law immunities, even
> though it remains a private organisation governed by Swiss law.
>
> My third remark is about the logical chain in the third bullet point.
> There is this suggestion that if we can't reach consensus on the mandate,
> then we would need to refer the question you drafted to the Plenary. Well,
> if there is no consensus on the mandate, then we should simply refer the
> mandate itself to the Plenary, not any question pre-empting hypothetical
> outcomes which could, by the way, only be reached in case the group engages
> in substantive discussions on the issues identified by the group and on the
> correspondent possible remedies..
>
> Best regards,
>
> Thiago
>
>
>
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Greg Shatan [mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com]
> Enviada em: sexta-feira, 9 de junho de 2017 01:47
> Para: Kavouss Arasteh
> Cc: Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira; ws2-jurisdiction
> Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Question Presented (Greg Shatan)
>
> Thiago, this slide was prepared prior to the call as a strawman to assist
> with the discussion. As a result of the call, we now have a number of
> suggestions for changes or alternatives to the question, so we have moved
> beyond the strawman. Of course, as you have noted, some version of this
> question has been discussed by the Subgroup before.
>
>
> Kavouss, since we have moved beyond this formulation of the question, I'm
> not sure it's necessary to address whether the strawman question is biased
> or leads to a predetermined judgment (on the latter, since there are at
> least two opposing answers, I don't see how that can be the case).
> However, if you have any observations you would like to share that would be
> helpful in revising the question or preparing an alternative to it, please
> do share your thoughts. Thank you.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Greg,
> Dear All, It was not,
> The question is biased giving a prédétermine judgement
> I do not agree with this question.
> Regards
> Kavouss
>
> 2017-06-08 22:48 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <
> kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>:
>
>
> Dear All, It was not,
> The question is biased giving a prédétermine judgement
> I do not agree with this question.
> Regards
>
> Kavouss
>
>
> 2017-06-08 20:21 GMT+02:00 Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira <
> thiago.jardim at itamaraty.gov.br <mailto:thiago.jardim at itamaraty.gov.br> >:
>
>
> Greg,
>
> Help me with this. Was this question you wanted to
> discuss at today's call presented to the group earlier than today or before
> today's call?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Thiago
>
>
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org <mailto:
> ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-
> bounces at icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org> ] Em nome
> de ws2-jurisdiction-request at icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-
> request at icann.org>
> Enviada em: quinta-feira, 8 de junho de 2017 10:29
> Para: ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> Assunto: Ws2-jurisdiction Digest, Vol 12, Issue 18
>
> Send Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list submissions to
> ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web, visit
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/
> listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/
> listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> ws2-jurisdiction-request at icann.org
> <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-request at icann.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ws2-jurisdiction-owner at icann.org <mailto:
> ws2-jurisdiction-owner at icann.org>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ws2-jurisdiction digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Question Presented (Greg Shatan)
>
>
> ------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:28:50 -0400
> From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
> To: ws2-jurisdiction <ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org>
> Cc: "acct-staff at icann.org" <acct-staff at icann.org>
> Subject: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Question Presented
> Message-ID:
> <CA+aOHUTdY0AROjojE9MXcbkL7FJ9Asgv
> 0QvFJAN4TJmR6sT71g at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CA%
> 2BaOHUTdY0AROjojE9MXcbkL7FJ9Asgv0QvFJAN4TJmR6sT71g at mail.gmail.com> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Please see attached.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mm.icann.org/
> pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20170608/d160a9d9/attachment.html <
> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/
> attachments/20170608/d160a9d9/attachment.html> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: QUESTION ON SCOPE OF CCWG.pdf
> Type: application/pdf
> Size: 350997 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://mm.icann.org/
> pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20170608/d160a9d9/
> QUESTIONONSCOPEOFCCWG.pdf <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/
> attachments/20170608/d160a9d9/QUESTIONONSCOPEOFCCWG.pdf> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: QUESTION ON SCOPE OF CCWG.docx
> Type: application/vnd.
> openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document
> Size: 15327 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://mm.icann.org/
> pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20170608/d160a9d9/
> QUESTIONONSCOPEOFCCWG.docx <http://mm.icann.org/
> pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20170608/d160a9d9/
> QUESTIONONSCOPEOFCCWG.docx> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/
> listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/
> listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction>
>
>
> End of Ws2-jurisdiction Digest, Vol 12, Issue 18
> ************************************************
> _______________________________________________
> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/
> listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/
> listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20170610/359d3d41/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Ws2-jurisdiction
mailing list