[CCWG-Accountability] Level of Discourse / Rules of Order

Sat Jan 17 07:16:18 UTC 2015

Sir
I will gladly repost your incorrect and inappropriate comments about me and your erroneous presumption of law and my grasp of it along w your follow up comment not thinking the community and I were looped in.

It is not that far off the New Year to make a resolution for the New Year to stick to fact.

Like Municipal law, your country may not have the guidance of the Hippocratic Oath for doctors of which I believe you are one. For your benefit here it is, especially this paragraph "will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm."

.........
Hippocratic Oath (Modern version)
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today. 

Comments (2)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2015, at 1:51 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el at lisse.na> wrote:
> 
> Dear Thomas and co-chairs
> 
> thank you very much for your reply.
> 
> I disagree with your statement that this should be done off list. It MUST be done on the same forum where it occurs. If only for accountability. 
> 
> I for one will post and say whatever I want wherever I want, though as you have noted without being disruptive and through the co-chairs, which is a recognized device in deliberative organizations, for example quoted from:
> 
> http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/roberts-rules-participating-in-meetings-as-a-membe.html
> 
> for your convenience:
> 
> 
> <quote>
> 
> Speaking through the chair
> When addressing another member, you never go wrong by speaking through the chair. Refrain from using the member's name if you can avoid it. Respect is conveyed by depersonalizing comments made in debate. For example, "Mr. Chairman, does the member who just spoke have information on the cost of his proposal?" works much better than, "Dang it Fred, have you thought about how much your stupid idea is gonna cost us?" Formality has its benefits.
> 
> </quote>
> 
> 
> greetings, el
> 
> Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
> 
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 22:21, Thomas Rickert <rickert at anwaelte.de> wrote:
>> 
>> All,
>> we have been addressed as co-chairs to take action based on various comments and complaints issued by Dr. Eberhard Lisse.
>> 
>> We take good note of the complaints and plan to discuss this with Dr. Lisse when we meet in Frankfurt.
>> 
>> We do not think that a public mailing list is the right forum issue nor to respond to the complaints. Complaints, if any, should be addressed to us offlist to allow us to deal with them appropriately.
>> 
>> At the same time, we would like to encourage the whole group to focus on the plethora of questions we have to work on and thank Roelof for reminding us of the wise encouragement to be conservative in what we send and liberal in what we receive.
>> 
>> Thank you and kind regards,
>> León Sánchez, Mathieu Weill and Thomas Rickert
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 15.01.2015 um 23:46 schrieb Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el at lisse.na>:
>>> 
>>> Dear Co-Chairs,
>>> 
>>> I wish to file a formal complaint about the disorder during the last
>>> telephone call and demand that this be dealt with forthwith.
>>> 
>>> After an apparent technical issue regarding Mr Arasteh, having being
>>> allegedly repeatedly phoned under an incorrect number, when he
>>> finally connected to the bridge he raised his voice and repeatedly
>>> interrupted the chair, while not having the floor/having been
>>> recognized.
>>> 
>>> In 25 year of dealing with this stuff I have never experienced an
>>> outburst like the one displayed by the ICG Liaison and Participant.
>>> 
>>> It is furthermore disturbing to me since the gentleman is a
>>> professional negotiator of 40 years experience and a GAC
>>> representative.
>>> 
>>> I also believe that such conduct is unacceptable under ICANN's rules
>>> of behavior but in any case it is not acceptable to me and I demand
>>> that steps are taken to prevent this from happening again.
>>> 
>>> Non withstanding the above I suppose an investigation into the
>>> allegations of him being unable to be contacted might be in order,
>>> and I for one look forward into find out what actually happened and
>>> what can be done to prevent this from happening again, if anything.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That said, I notice with alarming regularly issues with individuals
>>> being unable to access Adobe Connect and/or connecting to the call.
>>> 
>>> This is equally disturbing and hence I would appreciate if this
>>> could be looked into as well.
>>> 
>>> I for one am setting aside some time on TechDay on Monday of the
>>> ICANN meeting in Singapore, for an Adobe Workshop of sorts, where we
>>> could among other issues demonstrate how one can not only listen but
>>> also speak (directly) through the net, ie without requiring a dial
>>> in/out.
>>> 
>>> Then there is the possibility to use Skype's dial out which works,
>>> free of charge to US based toll free numbers.
>>> 
>>> Finally, I use a privately owned Asterix switchboard via a (Bria 3)
>>> soft-phone on my Mac to dial a UK based toll free number, which
>>> works extremely well with very little bandwidth from (the developing
>>> country) Namibia.
>>> 
>>> I have asked Bart Boswinkel a while back to look into setting up SIP
>>> access of sort, I could envisage an Asterix server which only allows
>>> the dialing of toll free numbers (related to ICANN work).  I have
>>> not heard back from him, yet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is not meant as criticism, in particular not of the chairs, who
>>> have been bending over backwards in order to be inclusive.
>>> 
>>> greetings, el
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
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