[CCWG-ACCT] Individual ICANN Board Members removal requirements

Sat Jul 18 14:55:27 UTC 2015

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
wrote:

> hi Seun
>
> I'm sorry, but this is simply not correct.
>
> Nobody is proposing to change the bylaws provisions that set out the
> current appointment process. They are enforceable under the law.
>

I am not sure i get what you are saying is not correct here, where in my
mail did i say the appointment process will be changed. What i said was
that based on CMSM, the power to appoint/remove board would lie on the CMSM
(since that is the single member). We have however determined that the
appointment process by SO/AC remain the same even though its still the
member that has appointed "technically"

>
> There is a legal "rubber stamp" for the decisions of the SOs, the ALAC and
> the NomCom, but in substance things are as they are today.
>

+1 for today but i am talking about post transition and when CMSM is
implemented.

>
> There is no proposal to give the "member" the right to second-guess those
> appointment decisions.
>

+1 and that is what i understood as well.

>
> The question we are debating is whether the same in reverse should apply
> to removal, or whether there actually should be some discretion or decision
> beyond the appointing body.
>

Exactly my point and i don't think the reverse should happen.

I hope that clarifies my point. Again i have no problem about appointment,
i however have about removal

Regards

>
>
> cheers
> Jordan
>
> On 18 July 2015 at 16:37, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not Seun, but it's clear to me that for appointments, it is (a) and
>>> not (b).  In other words, the CMSM is a pure pass-through of SO/AC board
>>> appointments, and has no capacity to debate or vote on a particular SO/AC's
>>> appointments.
>>>
>>
>> Correct! and by such CMSM pass through, the SO/AC is indirectly agreeing
>> that the particular board member will act in the interest of CMSM (the
>> organisation/community) and so the removal process should require
>> confirmation from CMSM that the board indeed violated such community
>> interest (as defined in the bylaw)
>>
>> I think its important we note that no single SO/AC will have a right to
>> legally appoint/remove post-transition.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Alan Greenberg <
>>>> alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Seun, my message was only about appointments.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be clear, is it your understanding that when an SO or AC selects a
>>>>> Board member, a) the CMSM *must* make that appointment, or b) may the other
>>>>> SO/ACS vote not to?
>>>>>
>>>>> a or b?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure i got your option "b" correctly. It is my understanding that
>>>> if SO or AC selects board members post-transition they will be doing so as
>>>> CMSM (since thats the only mechanism to formerly appoint and remove members)
>>>>
>>>> That said, i think one point from Jordan's summary would be sufficient
>>>> for me as it concerns board removal requirements:
>>>>
>>>> *1. Consultation requirement added*
>>>>>
>>>>> Where the process to remove a director or the Board is triggered,
>>>>> there would be a public discussion in the Community Forum to discuss the
>>>>> matter, before the decision-maker is allowed to take a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just for record, i am more about the removal process and not the
>>>> appointment.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
>>>>>
>>>>> On July 18, 2015 3:50:15 PM GMT+02:00, Seun Ojedeji <
>>>>> seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Alan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Alan Greenberg <
>>>>>> alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seun, I think that you may have misunderstood. The CMSM would be
>>>>>>> required pass on the appointment decisions of the SO/AC/NomCom, but it
>>>>>>> would not take an independent decision on these. The decision to appoint
>>>>>>> would remain the sole right of the individual SO, AC or NomCom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think i understand that correctly Alan; even though SO,AC or Nomcom
>>>>>> appoints, the bylaw would legally recognise that the appointments were made
>>>>>> by CMSM. Otherwise there will not have been need for item 2 below as
>>>>>> presented by legal council:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ICANN Bylaw moderation required for CMSM:
>>>>>>  - Set up community mechanism as sole member
>>>>>> - Alter director selection process so CMSM *elects* directors
>>>>>> - Address membership structure with one member
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my country the president appoints its minister but the "house of
>>>>>> assembly" approves it. While we may say president indeed does indeed
>>>>>> appoint constitutionally the assembly is part of the appointment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So we are not populating the Board collectively, the collective is
>>>>>>> simply honouring the decision of the individual organizations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on my above i hope you get my point now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again as its been said often, board removal is an unlikely thing to
>>>>>> happen(although i will argue its because we have not such provision at the
>>>>>> moment). However if we make SO/AC board member removal so independent of
>>>>>> other parts of the community, then we may experience board removal often
>>>>>> than we may have thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to know know every board member removed is removed because he
>>>>>> did not act in-line with the bylaw and not necessarily because he/she did
>>>>>> not act inline with a particular SO/AC's view (even though that can be a
>>>>>> second reason)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 18/07/2015 07:21 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  - SO/AC removing their individual board members goes against the
>>>>>>>> concept of "Community Mechanism as Sole Member" (CMSM) which simply
>>>>>>>> indicates that appointment of board members would now be executed by CMSM
>>>>>>>> (even though individual SO/AC does the selection). So if we populate the
>>>>>>>> board collectively why should we not so same for removal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - It would make no procedural sense for us to exercise CMSM powers
>>>>>>>> without the bodies that constitutes that mechanism approving it- I don't
>>>>>>>> know of any organisation where this is done. Even in individual members
>>>>>>>> based organisations, a member cannot remove any board member, its usually
>>>>>>>> certain number of members.(including if it were board removing its member)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:
>>>> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt
>>>> email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>>>> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>>>>
>>>> The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:
>> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt
>> email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>>
>> The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jordan Carter
>
> Chief Executive
> *InternetNZ*
>
> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
> Skype: jordancarter
>
> *A better world through a better Internet *
>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

The key to understanding is humility - my view !
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