[CCWG-ACCT] Edits due in 3h: V10 DRAFT for your review by 2 May at 01:00 UTCI

Mon May 4 00:27:58 UTC 2015

There is no "universal definition" of "private sector" and I'm not sure
what the purpose is in saying so. There are only particular definitions.
The "private sector" in the AoC is clearly different than the "private
sector"!in the Tunis Agenda.

I don't think anyone in the commercial sector is seeking to exclude civil
society and individual end users from the "private sector" in this
discussion.  Quite the opposite, if you look at this thread. To assert
otherwise is sheer invention and quite unfortunate. It seeks to increase
divisions rather than to bring groups together. For that matter, setting
the "private sector" as the antithesis of the "global public interest" is
even more damaging.  If that's your idea of the relationship, we will solve
nothing.  I am not alone in seeing the global public interest as aligned
and intertwined with the interests of the commercial sector.  Where they
are not, we should work to align them rather than to exacerbate the
differences. Insinuating that the commercial sector is throwing around
money to exclude civil society and end users from the private sector in
ICANN is a stereotypical fiction and damaging to real dialogue.

Greg

On Sunday, May 3, 2015, Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa at fmai.org.tn
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa at fmai.org.tn');>> wrote:

>  Edward,
>
>
>
> The universal definition of private sector is known by all, but I
> understood from you and others that the meaning in this context is “not
> governmental, not public”. If this is what you mean, I agree with your
> meaning, and to avoid any misunderstanding, let’s call it as you explain
> it; “not led by a government or an intergovernmental entity”. I think that
> this will satisfy everyone since I feel that we all mean the same thing,
> but disagree on the formulation.
>
>
>
> My fear is that the private sector has more financial interest than the
> global public interest, and in using “private sector” will exclude the
> civil society and the end users.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
>
> Executive Director
>
> Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
>
> Phone:  + 216 41 649 605
>
> Mobile: + 216 98 330 114
>
> Fax:       + 216 70 853 376
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* Edward Morris [mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net]
> *Envoyé :* dimanche 3 mai 2015 19:51
> *À :* Tijani BEN JEMAA
> *Cc :* Jon Nevett; Kavouss Arasteh; Accountability Cross Community
> *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: Edits due in 3h: V10 DRAFT for your review
> by 2 May at 01:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Tijani,
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful post. I respectfully disagree, though, with
> your assertion that 'private sector' in the context of ICANN's governing
> documents equates to business. It does not.
>
>
>
> I think it is important to emphasis that ICANN currently is defined, as
> Avri and I and others have pointed out,  in it's Bylaws and in the AOC as a
> private sector led multi-stakeholder organization. The ICANN you are "proud
> of" is one defined in this way. I would question the need to change that
> which by your own admission works. I would fear that those outside the
> community, those whose goodwill we need to finalise the transition, would
> question the removal of the word 'private'. I believe some would ask
> whether this was an attempt to leave open the future possibility of a
> 'public sector led multi-srtakeholder model.' If I were not personally
> involved in this process it certainly would be a question I would ask and
> probably would do so in a pejorative way. I see no reason in the current
> context of things to change the status quo.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Tijani BEN JEMAA <
> tijani.benjemaa at fmai.org.tn> wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
>
>
> The multi-stakeholder approach has its roots: you sure remember when all
> international (intergovernmental) meetings were always held in comfortable
> rooms while the other stakeholders and especially the civil society
> activists, demonstrated in the street near the meeting buildings, with the
> police pushing them and having incidents with them reaching in certain
> cases the death of some activists.
>
>
>
> The millennium summit found that it will be better to have those noisy
> people inside the room rather than making trouble in the street, and the
> first experience of accepting all stakeholders in the meetings was the
> world summit on information society (WSIS). Nobody thought that it will be
> possible to make them work with the governments in an organized and
> efficient manner, but it happened. I will not be long on how we created an
> organizational structure (Civil Society Bureau) and a content and themes
> structure for the preparation of the substantial contributions, and how we
> surprised the ITU (organizer) and the governments by the seriousness and
> the depth of our participation.
>
>
>
> The WSIS was organized in a multi-stakeholder fashion, the stakeholders
> were:
>
> ·         Governments
>
> ·         Private sector (Business)
>
> ·         Civil Society
>
> ·         International Organizations
>
>
>
> The second experience was the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) where the
> multi-stakeholder model was fully applied, with the same 4 stakeholders
> participating on an equal footing, while in the WSIS, we were considered as
> observers, and we could only give written contributions or sometimes we
> were given 5 minutes at the end of the session.
>
>
>
> I consider that the best use of the multi-stakeholder model is in ICANN,
> and I’m proud of it. It is not the private sector model. It is multi-stake
> holder where Governments, private sector (contracted parties and business
> sector), ccTLDs, technical community, end users, etc. have their say. If
> you call all those stakeholders “private sector”, I think there is a
> problem of terminology. If you consider that only the private sector should
> have a say, this is a different thing. But I’m sure this is not your
> intention.
>
>
>
> Since we all agree on the multi-stakeholder model, let’s call it by its
> name: “multi-stakeholder”. And if we want it to be more detailed, we can
> mention all the stakeholders that compose the ICANN community.
>
>
>
> I apologize for this long mail. I hope I made things clearer.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
>
> Executive Director
>
> Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
>
> Phone:  + 216 41 649 605
>
> Mobile: + 216 98 330 114
>
> Fax:       + 216 70 853 376 <%2B%20216%2070%20853%C2%A0376>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org [mailto:
> accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] *De la part de* Jon
> Nevett
> *Envoyé :* dimanche 3 mai 2015 16:05
> *À :* Kavouss Arasteh
> *Cc :* accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: Edits due in 3h: V10 DRAFT for your review
> by 2 May at 01:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Dear Kavouss:
>
>
>
> I did read your message.  I respectfully disagree with it.  This is not an
> issue with which to be impartial or neutral.  It is a fundamental tenet of
> the multi-stakeholder model that should not be ignored in the document.  If
> being explicit about it would polarize the folks on the list or those
> reviewing these accountability recommendations, so be it.  Let's have the
> debate and settle the issue.  We should not sweep the proverbial dust under
> the rug on an issue that is a core value to the model.  Being explicit
> should not create animosity, but rather clarity of expectations.  The NTIA
> was explicit in 2014 when it announced the transition.  I don't see why we
> shouldn't be as well.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> On May 3, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Jon,
>
> Icann Bylaws is not a holly book
>
> It was written many yaears ago ,We arae amending bylaws according  the
> draft .
>
> Perhaps you did not raed my message.
>
> What we should say should be neutral and impartial. It is quite clear that
> private sector or private entities contributing to the activities in a
> considerable manner  than perhaps other entities . This does not
> necessirily requires that we explicily prefer one group to other group or
> explictly focuss the attention to one group vis a vis other group.
>
> Like YOU I am also in favour of private contributions which has been till
> now erormous but I do not want to polarize the society or stakeholder.
>
> With or without that term the Internet will be developped then why we
> create an atmosphere of division and polarization ,
>
> If the organisation has been let by private nothing will prevent that to
> continue without saying that explictly.
>
> Let us be practical pragmatic, neutral, impèartial, inclussive and
> democratic.
>
> Let us be together . Let us be united . The issue is not critical that we
> would obliged to specifically mention that.
>
> I request you to kindly carefully read my analysis and in view of the fact
> that nothing prevent the private entities to contribute or led the
> organization but not spell it out and creating division polarization
> divergence and animosity
>
> I spent 42 years dealing with similar matter. If we can reconcile why not
> you are right . every body is right but once again let us not to be divided.
>
> Kavouss
>
>  t
>
>
>
> 2015-05-03 16:14 GMT+02:00 Jon Nevett <jon at donuts.co>:
>
> With respect, I don't support the deletion of the words "private" or
> "private-led" in the context of the concept of multi-stakeholderism and the
> report.
>
>
>
> It is clear from ICANN Bylaws (
> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/bylaws-en) that the
> organization is to be led privately, while at the same time receiving
> important advice from the governments.
>
>
>
> "Section 2  Core Values
>
> 11. While remaining rooted in the private sector, recognizing that
> governments and public authorities are responsible for public policy and
> duly taking into account governments' or public authorities'
> recommendations."
>
>
>
> Similarly, the NTIA announcement on the transition specifically mentions
> that it should be privately led:  "The Commerce Department’s June 10, 1998 *Statement
> of Policy* <http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/6_5_98dns.pdf>
> stated that the U.S. Government 'is committed to a transition that will
> allow the private sector to take leadership for DNS management.'”
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/press-release/2014/ntia-announces-intent-transition-key-internet-domain-name-functions
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 2, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Co chair,
>
> The message that I sent you and supported by others needs to be
> implemented.
>
> I strongly oppose top any discriminatory terms, expressions motivations
> attepmting to polarize the community in " Private led " por " public led"
> or any other divding terms to be used as an adjective for Multistakeholder.
> It is to be noted that a group of people even disagree with multistakeholer
> approach .Then let us try to convince them that the multistakeholder
> approach is widely agreed by many but and but without the use of and
> adjective such as " private led" .
>
> If this important issue is not taken on board there will be considerable
> opposition to the entire report.
>
> This is the issue of " to be " or " not to be" a biary approach yes with
> the report provided that the term " private led" in 4 or 5 places in the
> report is deleted .
>
> You are kindly urged to acknowledge receipt of this message and ensure of
> the proper ,neutral, impartial treatment of all categories of multistake
> holder and
>
> Regards
>
> Kavouss
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Olga Cavalli* <olgacavalli at gmail.com>
> Date: 2015-05-02 16:06 GMT+02:00
> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Edits due in 3h: V10 DRAFT for your review by 2
> May at 01:00 UTC
> To: Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
> Cc: Samantha Eisner <Samantha.Eisner at icann.org>, Thomas Rickert <
> rickert at anwaelte.de>, Mathieu Weill <Mathieu.Weill at afnic.fr>, León Felipe
> Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>, Accountability Cross Community <
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
>
> Dear all,
>
> thanks for the draft.
>
> I support Kavouss comments and suggested edits.
>
> Regards
>
> Olga
>
>
>
> 2015-05-02 4:35 GMT-03:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> IMPORTANT AND URGENT
>
> Dear co-chairs,
>
> Thank you very much for your enormous and tireless efforts to put this
> doc. for final comments
>
> I have had many comments but I could not finish the edits till now.
>
> I therefore do not wish to delay the work.
>
> However, I have one VERY IMPORTANT edit that I raised it in my last e-mail.
>
> That edit is relating to a reference to ICANN or Internet Process as being
> «private led  multistakeholder”  organization or process.
>
> This is a mistake. a big mistake. There is no such preference to one
> category of stakeholder over other categories of stakeholder (private or
> public) .
>
> I raised this matter at one of our call and asked for deletion of that
> term.
>
> All stakeholder, irrespective being private, public, and etc. *SHALL * be
> treated equally. This issue was raised at various occasions by NTIA
> indicating / emphasizing that no single category of the stakeholder should
> benefit from preference over other categories of stakeholders .This term
> was used at very early stage of the introduction of the ICANN into the
> business. Over the time when we discussed that the process should be
> inclusive, democratic, then it was agreed by everybody that no category of
> the stakeholder should have any preference, what so ever, or should have
>   a preferred treatment over other categories of the stakeholders.
>
> In view of the above, I urge you to  kindly correct such a big mistake
> which if it is not corrected would put us in a very delicate situation that
> we did not respect impartiality and neutrality in treating  various
> categories of the stakeholders.
>
> There are 4 or 5 times that such a reference to »private led
> multistakeholder  are referred to in the doc.
>
> Pls kindly make a simple «find" check and delete all that.  Term in other
> part of doc. whenever, so as reference is maded to multistakeholder there
> is no such an incorrect and discriminative preference.
>
> Regards
>
> Kavouss
>
>
>
> 2015-05-02 9:01 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I have not finish edits .I am on page 50. However, in view of time time
> constrain, I have an important edit that is attached.
>
> The same edit should be carried forward elsewhere  throughout the entire
> document . please then search for " private sector led " and DELETE THAT .
> I mentioned in one of the call .See Attached doc.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-05-02 3:34 GMT+02:00 Samantha Eisner <Samantha.Eisner at icann.org>:
>
>   Thanks Grace.
>
>
>
> Dear CCWG,
>
> Attached please find some proposed edits for consideration.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sam
>
>
>
> *From: *Grace Abuhamad <grace.abuhamad at icann.org>
> *Date: *Friday, May 1, 2015 at 3:52 PM
> *To: *Accountability Cross Community <
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
> *Subject: *[CCWG-ACCT] Edits due in 3h: V10 DRAFT for your review by 2
> May at 01:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just a reminder than edits, comments are due in approximately 3h. Thank
> you to those who sent edits earlier today.  If you must send late edits,
> please send a note to the Chairs* with staff in copy* to give us notice
> that your comments will be delayed. Best to stick to the deadline, but we
> know everyone is working hard to get this draft report ready, and we’d
> rather get your comments than not at all.
>
> Have a good weekend,
>
> Grace
>
>
>
> *From: *Grace Abuhamad <grace.abuhamad at icann.org>
> *Date: *Friday, May 1, 2015 at 11:19 AM
> *To: *Accountability Cross Community <
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: V10 DRAFT for your review by 2 May at 01:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> We sent the V10 draft report earlier today (in UTC) but have been notified
> that, in some cases, the files are too large to download from the email
> attachments. As a reminder, the draft (redline and clean versions) are
> posted on the Wiki:
> https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Draft+Report.
>
>
>
> Looking forward to receiving your comments and edits,
>
> Grace
>
>
>
> *From: *Grace Abuhamad <grace.abuhamad at icann.org>
> *Date: *Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 9:22 PM
> *To: *Accountability Cross Community <
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
> *Subject: *V10 DRAFT for your review by 2 May at 01:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Here attached is the CCWG-Accountability Draft Report V10. I have attached
> a redline and a clean version (in Word and PDF).
>
>
>
> Version 10 incorporates the following:
>
>    - Changes from the CCWG-Accountability call on Thursday 30 April at
>    05:00 UTC
>    - Edits from legal counsel (Sidley and Adler)
>    - Approval from the CWG-Stewardship Chairs/Client Committee regarding
>    incorporation of CWG-Stewardship recommendations
>    - Edits from Chairs and Rapporteurs
>
>  Please send your edits, comments, etc to the mailing list by*Saturday 2
> May 01:00 UTC* (24h from now). Staff will incorporate the edits over the
> weekend so as to release a final version for Public Comment on Monday, 4
> May. *If possible, edits are appreciate in track changes in the clean
> version so that they are clearly marked and visible. *There will be
> professional formatting and copyediting done before publication, so we
> suggest that your time my be best spent by focusing on the
> substance-related edits.
>
>
>
> Also, please remember to submit your feedback regarding the XPlane
> graphics by Saturday as well. Adam will send a reminder re: XPlane.
>
>
>
> Almost there!
>
> — Grace
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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