[CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i

Thu Dec 12 14:24:48 UTC 2019

It's definitely a good thing that the IAB and the IETF community
acknowledge the need to prioritize the interests of "End Users" over other
interested parties.

" In these situations, when one of those parties is an "end user" of

   the Internet - for example, a person using a Web browser, mail
   client, or another agent that connects to the Internet - the Internet
   Architecture Board argues that the IETF should favor their interests
   over those of parties."

This statement aligns with the goals of our ICANN At-Large community.

If At-Large does decide to take a position and comment on this RFC,
I'd suggest making a change to Section 5. IANA Considerations. The
current statement "This document does not require action by IANA." is
accurate. However, it might be a good idea to add a sentence which
acknowledges ICANN's At-Large remit to focus on "End User Interests"
since ICANN now runs IANA. It might be beneficial to document the
connection between the At-Large community and the IETF community at
this point in the document.

Cheers!

David

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 7:50 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <
Hadia at tra.gov.eg> wrote:

> I guess the IETF when speaking about users being represented by a software, they do not really mean "represented" but they mean a software
>
> doing a certain job on behalf of the users. They are speaking from a pure technical point of view, that allows them when considering end users
>
> in their technical decisions not to ignore this aspect.  I like how  they defined end users from a broader perspective where they said "the end user of a protocol to manage routers is not the router administrator, it is the people using the network that the router operates within"
>
>
>
> I think this draft is good and necessary start
>
>
>
> Hadia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Alberto Soto
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:30 AM
> *To:* Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond; b_jouris at yahoo.com; avri at acm.org; CPWG
> *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-i
>
>
>
> Recently, in informal talks at NASIG 2019 and then formally in a session
> at ICANN 66, I said the following: We are the ones who are defending the
> interests of the end users, but the end users are those who have no idea
> that ICANN exists , ALAC or someone who defends their interests on the
> Internet. Are those who have a problem with your domain, or with your
> internet provider that charges a differential fee for the same service, or
> with your identity that was stolen via the Internet, or who sees that
> Amazon wants a domain similar to your region , or several more problems
> than any of us can imagine. But who does not know where to start claiming,
> we do, that is why we defend their interests and we are also end users
>
> Never can an end user be represented by software or anything other than a
> person who knows the rights that the end user has.
>
> I think we should explain this a bit to those who still have doubts ...
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Alberto
>
>
>
> *De: *CPWG <cpwg-bounces at icann.org> en nombre de Olivier MJ
> Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
> *Fecha: *miércoles, 11 de diciembre de 2019, 20:47
> *Para: *"b_jouris at yahoo.com" <b_jouris at yahoo.com>, "avri at acm.org" <
> avri at acm.org>, CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Asunto: *Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i
>
>
>
> Dear Bill, all,
>
> knowing how many feel in the IETF community, asking the IETF to broaden
> this document to include ICANN will be met with opposition. After all, this
> is an Internet Draft meant for the IETF Process.
>
> One bit did, however, make me smile. I quote:
>
> End users are not necessarily a homogenous group; they might have
>    different views of how the Internet should work, and might occupy
>    several roles, such as a seller, buyer, publisher, reader, service
>    provider and consumer.  An end user might be browsing the Web,
>    monitoring remote equipment, playing a game, video conferencing with
>    colleagues, sending messages to friends, or performing an operation
>    in a remote surgery theatre.  They might be "at the keyboard", or
>    represented by software indirectly (e.g., as a daemon).
>
> "End users might be represented by software indirectly". A "daemon" is an
> automated program that runs tasks in the background of a computer. Thus
> this paragraph appears to note that some "end users" could be represented
> by a piece of software". I wonder how many people in At-Large are actually
> pieces of software? Should we subject members to a Turing Test? :-)
> Kindest regards,
>
> Olivier
>
> On 07/12/2019 18:27, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote:
>
> At the moment, this draft RFC is narrowly focused on IETF, and how it
> prioritizes the interests of end users.  (Or, as we would phrase it, the
> interests of the At Large community.)  However I believe that there is
> already a suggestion that it might be broadened to include ICANN.
>
>
>
> I have no idea how far IETF's remit runs, and whether that is even an
> option.  But if it is, At Large might wish to consider weighing in with a
> group opinion, in addition to whatever individual opinions some of us might
> offer.
>
>
>
> Bill Jouris
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:18 AM, avri doria
>
> <avri at acm.org> <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>
>
> fyi
>
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject:     [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
> Date:     Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100
> From:     Mark Nottingham <mnot at mnot.net>
> To:     hrpc at irtf.org
>
>
>
> The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just
> those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on
> the draft issues list at
> <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>).
>
> Apologies if you've seen this before.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > *From: *internet-drafts at ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts at ietf.org>
> > *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt*
> > *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT
> > *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot at mnot.net <mailto:mnot at mnot.net>>
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
> > has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:draft-iab-for-the-users
> > Revision:01
> > Title:The Internet is for End Users
> > Document date:2019-11-18
> > Group:iab
> > Pages:11
> > URL:
> >
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt
> > <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt>
> > Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/
> > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01
> > Htmlized:
> >       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users
> > Diff:
> >           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
> >
> > Abstract:
> >   This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider
> >   end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org
> > <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>
>
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
>
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>
>
>
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