[CPWG] [GTLD-WG] reference list re: amazon PICs

Mon Sep 30 20:02:54 UTC 2019

Lots of solemn promises by the Amazon organisation to ACTO. The fact is and
remains there is no claim of a subverted process. So I'm even money the
string will be delegated.

I have no standing to advise ACTO but if I could I'd tell 'em  shake on the
offer, count your fingers and hope for the best.

Now, for this group, I'd advise be mute without malice. And sit on your
hands.

CAS

==============================
*Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
=============================

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:23 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net> wrote:

> Thanks Carlton and Jonathan, for your comments on this. But it is still
> unclear to me whether or not these pics are anything more than window
> dressing. I wonder whether any recommendations we might make would have any
> hope of making a difference.
>
> Just as a reminder, the PIC proposal includes, in addition to the creation
> of a joint Steering Committee (under the control of Amazon.org), the
> following commitments:
>
>    1. "Not use as domain names in each .AMAZON TLD those terms that have
>    a primary and well-recognized significance to the culture and heritage of
>    the Amazonia region;
>    2. Provide nine domain names in each .AMAZON TLD to be used for
>    non-commercial purposes by ACTO and its member states to enhance the
>    visibility of the region; and
>    3. Block from all use up to 1500 domain names in each .AMAZON TLD that
>    have a primary and well recognized significance to the culture and heritage
>    of the Amazonia region"
>
> Marita
>
> On 9/29/2019 6:25 PM, Jonathan Zuck wrote:
>
> If I might moderate this a TINY bit, I can confirm that the cctrt found
> enforcement to be woefully underwhelming and part of the problem was
> structural. Compliance lacks some of the mechanisms needed to look
> atcontracted parties wholistically. Hense some of the recommendations from
> the RT.
>
> That said, I suspect these particular ones are different as they are
> mostly about reserve strings by a registry that doesn't lack for cash. I
> think a lot of pics are abandoned because of money and every registry, with
> few exceptions, migrates towards the generic to maximize sales. (there are
> recs in that as well). In THIS case, money is no object but the utility of
> the domain is. In other words, if the demands are Too high, the utility of
> the domain suffers but I believe that will all be resolved before launch
> and that enforcement, in this particular case, won't be a problem.
>
> Just MY two cents.
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Zuck
> Executive Director
> Innovators Network Foundation
> www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Carlton Samuels
> <carlton.samuels at gmail.com> <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 29, 2019 12:07:14 PM
> *To:* Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net> <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
> *Cc:* CPWG <cpwg at icann.org> <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon PICs
>
> Hi Marita:
> To answer you directly, yes, I do not see any useful movement coming. So
> conserve the energy.
>
> We have been down the road before. The history is that during the
> horsetrading of what was the 2012 round, this entire idea and process was,
> IMHO, just something thrown on for 'feel good', for stickiness and to get
> ICANN over a hump. The right "optics" was the most important objective. And
> the applicants for strings grabbed it like a drowning man grabs at straws
> floating in the ocean.  It worked.
>
> Voluntary or contracted, it does not matter. The problem is enforcement.
> And, the mechanisms for enforcement.
>
> First of all, the voluntary ones were just that. Except the sleight of
> hand that somehow their status was elided to become "enforceable" under
> contract. The nature of the "contracted" ones are that they make up and are
> part of the business model of the registry. Those present a few
> difficulties for me.
>
> First, I'm philosophically opposed to ICANN regulating a business model.
> Because that inures to the position that ICANN is picking 'winners and
> losers' in the DNS marketplace. You can't be both free marketer and what
> amounts to being a freebooter at once.
>
> Next, and the substantive point. In respect of PICDRP, look at who has
> standing to make the complaint. And, to be the principal adjudicator of
> said complaint. And, who bears the costs for that adjudication.  Always
> follow the money. For in the end, it is the most compelling factor.
>
> In my view, there are more than may reasons why this is a dog that won't
> hunt. First, ICANN org has shown very little appetite to enforce these
> contracts to the "t". And if that must be done at their cost, I can build
> you a thousand reasons to find that 'unhelpful'.  Bottomline, diminishing
> returns, much ado about nothing. And, not worth the energy of the few.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Best,
> -Carlton
>
> ==============================
> *Carlton A Samuels*
>
> *Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment &
> Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:13 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>> So, is your recommendation that we just not bother getting into this? You
>> will know that there is a pic dispute resolution process. You are saying
>> this is not adequate?
>>
>> It is a serious question. I don't have a strong sense yet, from the
>> community, about our role in this process. In fact, in the processes
>> offered to address it, the ICANN application comment form (see below) it
>> looks like only individuals can send in comments.
>>
>> Marita
>> On 9/27/2019 12:45 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
>>
>> The PICs live and die on enforcement.  Long ago, I declared them to be
>> not 'worth a bucket of warm spit'.
>>
>> You needn't be clairvoyant or particularly prescient to see the
>> enforcement mechanism would have been useless for those who are aggrieved
>> unless there are third party enforcement rights of action.
>>
>> -Carlton
>>
>> ==============================
>> *Carlton A Samuels*
>>
>> *Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment &
>> Turnaround*
>> =============================
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 10:48 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello CPWG members. As requested please see below the primary and
>>> secondary sources that were used in researching the Amazon PICs issue
>>>
>>> Primary sources:
>>>
>>> *Approved Board resolutions; special meeting of the Board  May 15, 2019
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2019-05-15-en#1.c
>>>
>>> *Text of .amazon PICS -- E-mail to ICANN Board
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/huseman-to-chalaby-17apr19-en.pdf
>>>
>>> *Marby to Zaluar correspondence -- June 13, 2019
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/marby-to-zaluar-13jun19-en.pdf
>>>
>>> *ICANN Application comment form
>>>
>>> https://gtldcomment.icann.org/applicationcomment/login
>>>
>>> Secondary sources:
>>>
>>> *Domain Mondo's weekly Internet domain news review June 2, 2019
>>>
>>> www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html
>>>
>>>
>>> *Hold your horses; the last wave of comments on .amazon hasn't started
>>> yet
>>>
>>> Kevin Murphy May 24, 2019
>>>
>>>
>>> domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet
>>>
>>> *Amazon wins; ICANN on verge of approving .amazon despite government
>>> outrage
>>>
>>> Kevin Murphy, May 19, 2019
>>>
>>>
>>> domainincite.com/24260-amazon-wins-icann-on-verge-of-approving-amazon-despite-government-outrage
>>> <https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/brcrb7/icann_on_verge_of_approving_amazon_for_amazon_inc/>
>>>
>>>
>>> *.amazon domains are getting closer
>>>
>>> Konstantinos Zournas May 29, 2019
>>>
>>>
>>> https://onlinedomain.com/2019/05/20/domain-name-news/amazon-domain-names-are-getting-closer/
>>>
>>> *Jeff Bezos finally gets .Amazon after DNS overlord runs out of excuses
>>> to delay decision any further
>>>
>>> Kieran McCarthy May 21, 2019
>>>
>>> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/21/bezos_finally_gets_amazon/
>>>
>>>
>>> *ICANN says Amazon In's application for .amazon TLD can proceed
>>> following 30 days of public comment
>>>
>>> May 20, 2019
>>>
>>>
>>> www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/
>>>
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>>
>>
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