[CPWG] Calif. AG mentions ALAC advice in note to ICANN re: PIR

Alan Greenberg alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Mon May 4 14:50:36 UTC 2020 

David, I'm not going to comment on the substance of the PIR 
discussion here, although I largely agree with Greg.

But I will comment on the processes at Large uses to address consensus.

To a great extent, on most issues, there has been little dissent 
within At-Large on policy issues (there is at times disagreement on 
how At-Large or more likely parts of it govern themselves, but that 
is a different issue for a different time). Despite the widely 
ranging variation on circumstances, the underlying issues that impact 
end users (other than access and connectivity which are different but 
outside of ICANN's remit) are very similar.

But on occasion, there are various differing opinions on a particular 
issue. Sometimes discussion addresses this and we end up with the 
vast majority of a single mind (the ALS-Mobilization-WP discussions 
on whether there was a conflict with people or ALSes holding multiple 
positions within ICANN was one such example).

Very occasionally, we are divided and stay that way. There are two 
outcomes with regard to formal statements made by the ALAC on behalf 
of At-Large.

a) We decide that we must make a statement, but provide both 
sides/positions with some idea of split proportions.

b) We decide not to comment because we are not really in a position 
to speak on behalf of our divided community and that presenting the 
division would not really be helpful.

Although the ALAC itself at times votes and technically we decide 
most issues by a majority, I cannot recall a time where that vote was 
close (on policy issues) and we presented only the "winning" 
position. Consensus rules the day in most cases, and our rule of 
thumb is 80% must agree for a consensus to be declared.

Perhaps we need to get better at this, or be more precise, but these 
rules and processes have generally been acceptable for quite some 
number of years.

Alan

At 2020-05-03 03:35 PM, David Mackey wrote:
>It's hard to see the words "There is mounting concern that ICANN is 
>no longer responsive to the needs of its stakeholders." as being 
>positive for ICANN without thoughtful reflection.
>
>It also seems that the position of the California Attorney General 
>aligns better with the dissent voiced in the At-Large CPWG email 
>thread discussions, rather than the advice that was eventually given 
>to the board.
>
>The final .ORG decision may over, but I hope there's opportunity for 
>a discussion on how to improve the At-Large consensus process.
>
>It appears the dissent voices raised in this email group did, in 
>fact, have merit and were not easily dismissed outside the At-Large 
>community as being merely "passionate".
>
>It might be a good idea to see how we as a community can better 
>encapsulate dissent and non-consensus into our process.
>
>
>On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 8:45 AM Matthias M. Hudobnik 
><<mailto:matthias at hudobnik.at>matthias at hudobnik.at> wrote:
>
>Well said Jonathan!
>
>
>
>Have a nice day!
>
>Best,
>
>M.
>
>
>
>_________________________
>
>Ing. Mag. Matthias M. Hudobnik
>
><mailto:matthias at hudobnik.at>matthias at hudobnik.at
>
>http://www.hudobnik.at
>
>
>
>Von: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces at icann.org] Im Auftrag von Jonathan Zuck
>Gesendet: Samstag, 18. April 2020 09:49
>An: Maureen Hilyard; Dev Anand Teelucksingh
>Cc: CPWG
>Betreff: Re: [CPWG] Calif. AG mentions ALAC advice in note to ICANN re: PIR
>
>
>
>Interesting indeed.  I would stress, however, that it might have 
>much to do with our brand (as the sympathetic voice of end users) as 
>it did with our content. Persistence of Perspective!
>
>
>
>From: CPWG <<mailto:cpwg-bounces at icann.org>cpwg-bounces at icann.org> 
>on behalf of Maureen Hilyard 
><<mailto:maureen.hilyard at gmail.com>maureen.hilyard at gmail.com>
>Date: Friday, April 17, 2020 at 10:53 PM
>To: Dev Anand Teelucksingh <<mailto:devtee at gmail.com>devtee at gmail.com>
>Cc: CPWG <<mailto:cpwg at icann.org>cpwg at icann.org>
>Subject: Re: [CPWG] Calif. AG mentions ALAC advice in note to ICANN re: PIR
>
>
>
>Interesting that it was our almost two pages of practical advice 
>from the ALAC that gained the attention of the AG to use as a lash 
>on ICANN than the letters to the Board from the ASO and NCSG.
>
>
>
>M
>
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM Dev Anand Teelucksingh 
><<mailto:devtee at gmail.com>devtee at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Indeed, interesting and noteworthy to point out that ALAC statements 
>do have impact.
>
>Its a pity because the PDF of the ALAC statement is on the wiki, the link is
><https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+ISOC+Sells+PIR?preview=/120821713/126423106/ALAC%20Advice%20to%20the%20ICANN%20Board%20on%20the%20ISOC%3APIR%20Issue%20-%20FINAL%20310120.pdf>https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+ISOC+Sells+PIR?preview=/120821713/126423106/ALAC%20Advice%20to%20the%20ICANN%20Board%20on%20the%20ISOC%3APIR%20Issue%20-%20FINAL%20310120.pdf
>
>
>
>Dev Anand
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 9:44 PM Marita Moll 
><<mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>mmoll at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>Wow, quite a slap down by the AG of California.  ALAC advice re: this
>issue referenced as reasons for concern.
>
>Marita
>
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