[CWG-Stewardship] Transition ProposalHi, v.3 -- Edits due on Sunday at 23:59 UTC

Greg Shatan gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 16:40:36 UTC 2015


Avri,

I think the SCWG should not have absolute discretion to recommend a
timeframe.  They would still have to abide by the "no less than every 5
years" rule.  Within the confines of the rule, they could have discretion
to recommend a timeframe for the next PIFR.  However, I still think it's
overkill to accelerate a comprehensive PIFR instead of conducting a focused
follow-up review of the remediation.

Greg

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I agree that we should not be creating yet another mechanism and wheher
> we reset timers of not, we do not create something new to handle a post
> SCWG review.
>
> To Chuck's point, if we leave the periodicity of reviews post a SCWG to
> the SCWG, they could decide that 5 years is much too frequent.   I am
> fine with leaving the future open to the future on issue of timer
> duration if others are.
>
> In recommending a return to Transition rules, I hoped I was recommending
> something simple that required few extra words in the proposal.  Just as
> I believe we should not be adding new mechanisms, I also believe that we
> should not be adding a lot of complicating text at this point.
>
> avri
>
>
> On 08-Jun-15 10:53, Matthew Shears wrote:
> > Thanks Greg - I think this makes sense.   On the Follow-up Reviews, I
> > agree that the PIFR should not be accelerated to do it, but why
> > wouldn't IFR still undertake the review?  I don't think we should be
> > creating a new body to do so.
> >
> > On 6/8/2015 10:42 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
> >> My suggestion is that the periodic IFRs should stay on the same
> >> schedule (like Olympics or World Cups or Presidential elections)
> >> regardless of any SIFRs.  So, if the transition takes places in 2015,
> >> the first (2 year) IFR would take place in 2017, and then every 5
> >> years thereafter (in this example, 2022, 2027, 2032, 2037, etc.),
> >> unless a new IFO is put in place, replacing PTI.  In this case, the
> >> clock should reset, so that there is a 2 year IFR, followed by
> >> successive 5 year IFRs (as above).
> >>
> >> *Follow-up Reviews: *SIFRs are different than PIFRs because they are
> >> triggered by a material deficiency, and they are aimed at resolving
> >> that deficiency.  Therefore, I suggest that after a SIFR (or a SCWG
> >> that does not result in a new IFO), a targeted follow-up should take
> >> place to determine whether the deficiency was in fact satisfactorily
> >> resolved.  A full PIFR is not the right tool to do so, and should not
> >> be accelerated to serve as such.  I would suggest that this Follow-up
> >> Review should take place 1 year after the end of the SIFR or SCWG
> >> process.
> >>
> >> Greg
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com
> >> <mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     I definitely think we should keep it as simple as possible and
> >>     maybe having the SCWG make recommendations as to any clock
> >>     resetting is one way to keep it simpler.  I definitely don't
> >>     think that periodic reviews should ever happen less frequently
> >>     than every five years.
> >>
> >>     Chuck
> >>
> >>     -----Original Message-----
> >>     From: cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>
> >>     [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> >>     Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 7:32 PM
> >>     To: cwg-stewardship at icann.org <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
> >>     Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Transition ProposalHi, v.3 --
> >>     Edits due on Sunday at 23:59 UTC
> >>
> >>     Hi,
> >>
> >>     that was exactly what I proposed.
> >>
> >>     SCWG -> reset IFR timer.
> >>
> >>     cheers
> >>
> >>     avri
> >>
> >>
> >>     On 07-Jun-15 18:30, Greg Shatan wrote:
> >>     > I think we are complicating things with the timing of reviews.  It
> >>     > will be more predictable to have the periodic reviews stay on
> >>     > schedule, regardless of a SIFR.  I would suggest that the next
> >>     > periodic IFR (PIFR?) after a SIFR should specifically examine
> >>     whether
> >>     > the remediation that came out of the SIFR continued to work in a
> >>     > satisfactory manner.
> >>     >
> >>     > The only exception would be if a SIFR resulting in SCWG and
> >>     ultimately
> >>     > in a new IFO (replacing PTI).  In this case, the new IFO should be
> >>     > subject to a PIFR two years after commencing operations.
> >>     >
> >>     > Greg
> >>     >
> >>     > On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 12:45 PM, James Gannon
> >>     <james at cyberinvasion.net <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net>
> >>     > <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net
> >>     <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net>>> wrote:
> >>     >
> >>     >     I would support the SCWG making a recommendation on it as the
> >>     >     landscape may change post an SCWG depending on the outcome.
> The
> >>     >     SCWG would be in the best position to make an informed fact
> >>     based
> >>     >     decision at that time rather than us making it based on
> >>     >     hypotheticals now.
> >>     >
> >>     >     -James
> >>     >
> >>     >     -----Original Message-----
> >>     >     From: cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>
> >>     >     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>>
> >>     >     [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>
> >>     >     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>>] On Behalf Of Avri
> Doria
> >>     >     Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 4:29 PM
> >>     >     To: cwg-stewardship at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org
> >>
> >>     >     Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Transition Proposal v.3 --
> Edits
> >>     >     due on Sunday at 23:59 UTC
> >>     >
> >>     >     Hi
> >>     >
> >>     >     Sorry for the confusion.
> >>     >
> >>     >     I was asking whether we consider resetting the IFR timer
> >>     for post
> >>     >     SCWG.
> >>     >
> >>     >     We had the conversation about post SIFR and lots of
> >>     arguments were
> >>     >     made both ways, with neither prevailing; so I left that
> >>     issue alone.
> >>     >
> >>     >     The idea about doing it post SCWG, is that even if the SCWG
> >>     were
> >>     >     to result in no-change, whatever would have been going on
> >>     at the
> >>     >     time, would have been serious enough for the SCWG to have been
> >>     >     triggered.  It therefore seems that this would be a good
> >>     time to
> >>     >     rest the clock back to time 0 (i.e. this transition).
> >>     >
> >>     >     On the other hand, perhaps this decision could be left to
> >>     the SCWG
> >>     >     to recommend, just as a SIFR or IFR could recommend a
> >>     changed timing.
> >>     >
> >>     >     avri
> >>     >
> >>     >
> >>     >     On 07-Jun-15 11:14, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
> >>     >     > Avri,
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > Regarding the clock for periodic IFRs related to SIFRs,
> >>     let me
> >>     >     make sure I understand what you are suggesting.  Am I
> >>     correct that
> >>     >     you are suggesting that after an SIFR the entire clock would
> be
> >>     >     reset so that the next periodic IFR would occur two years
> later
> >>     >     and then the (no more than) 5 year periodic review cycle would
> >>     >     kick in again?  If so, then the only concern I have is a
> >>     situation
> >>     >     illustration by this possible scenario:
> >>     >     >       -  The initial 2-year periodic review happens.
> >>     >     >       -  A SIFR occurs 4 years after the initial 2-year
> >>     periodic
> >>     >     review.
> >>     >     >       - A new 2-year periodic review happens 2 years
> >>     after the SIFR.
> >>     >     > In this case there would be six years or more between
> >>     periodic
> >>     >     reviews, which would violate our intent that periodic reviews
> >>     >     occur no less frequently than five years.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > Because periodic review cover items different than in
> >>     SIFRs, I
> >>     >     think we should fix this, assuming I am understanding your
> >>     >     recommendation correctly, and I think it should be easily
> >>     fixable
> >>     >     with some adjustments to wording.  Would a qualifier, like the
> >>     >     following work:  "In case an SIFR occurs close to the end of a
> >>     >     5-year period after the last periodic review, the periodic
> >>     review
> >>     >     should still occur and a 2-year periodic review should
> >>     occur after
> >>     >     the 5-year periodic review."
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > I am not sure my qualifying language is the best but I at
> >>     least
> >>     >     wanted to try to suggest something.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > Hope this makes sense but if it doesn't please let me know.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > Chuck
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > -----Original Message-----
> >>     >     > From: cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>
> >>     >     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>>
> >>     >     > [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>
> >>     >     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>>] On Behalf Of Avri
> Doria
> >>     >     > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 12:07 PM
> >>     >     > To: cwg-stewardship at icann.org
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
> >>     <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org
> >>
> >>     >     > Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Transition Proposal v.3 --
> >>     Edits
> >>     >     due on
> >>     >     > Sunday at 23:59 UTC
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > Hi,
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > On a partial reread, I have the following comments.
> >>     >     > I do agree with Grace's comment that we are almost there.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > On 05-Jun-15 00:07, Grace Abuhamad wrote:
> >>     >     >> Dear all,
> >>     >     >>
> >>     >     >> Attached is the updated proposal. This version includes
> >>     the edits
> >>     >     >> listed below. *Your comments are requested and welcome
> >>     until Sunday
> >>     >     >> 23:59 UTC.* If you don't have time to read the whole
> >>     proposal, I've
> >>     >     >> highlighted specific areas in the document that require
> >>     feedback.
> >>     >     >>   * Footnote (p.65): DT-N to respond to Sidley about
> >>     status of
> >>     >     >> footnote
> >>     >     >>
> >>     >     > -  i do not understand footnote 51 in the context of the
> >>     current
> >>     >     report.  It is a vestige of a time before we discussed the
> >>     IFR in
> >>     >     detail.  I think it should be removed.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     >>   * Section VI edits should be reviewed by CWG (Avri
> >>     perhaps?)
> >>     >     >>
> >>     >     > seems fine to me.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > ---    Does Annex H need to change based on changes made
> >>     in para 133
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > ---   An issue we discussed but not sure we closed on.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > IFR Clock reset after any SCWG.  (and understanding that we
> >>     >     could not
> >>     >     > come to consensus of changing the periodicity after an SIFR)
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > I think we need to reset the clock after any SCWG, no
> >>     matter what
> >>     >     > outcome it may select.  If something was important enough
> >>     to warrant
> >>     >     > an SCWG, its outcome needs to be reviewed 2 years later -
> >>     even
> >>     >     in case
> >>     >     > of a decision of no change)
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > this would require changing: 299 top row 2nd col.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     >> Initially, two years, then moving to every five years
> >>     >     >>
> >>     >     > to
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > Initially and after an SCWG, two years, then moving to an
> >>     >     interval of
> >>     >     > no more than five years
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > (the second bit for consistency with other word in the doc)
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > It might also require insertion of something like the
> >>     following
> >>     >     after
> >>     >     > 126 & 385
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > # After the completion of a SCWG process, the IFR
> >>     periodic clock
> >>     >     will be reset to its initial state of first IFR after 2 years
> >>     >     followed by a period of no more that five years for
> >>     subsequent IFR.
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > thanks
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > avri
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     >
> >>     >     > ---
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> > --
> > Matthew Shears
> > Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
> > Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
> > + 44 (0)771 247 2987
>
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