[CWG-Stewardship] Client Committee

Tue Mar 10 16:36:50 UTC 2015

Thanks Alan,

That seems like a good suggestion re: "we allow all CWG Members/Participants
to be subscribed to the cwg-client list, even if they are not given posting
rights". 

It seems to me to be consistent with the current position yet permit better
access. Does anyone have any reservations?

Please clarify "that the list membership be viewable to all, regardless of
whether they are members of the list or not"? Do we not do that already.

Jonathan

From: Alan Greenberg [mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca] 
Sent: 10 March 2015 16:00
To: jrobinson at afilias.info; 'James Gannon'; 'Robin Gross'
Cc: cwg-stewardship at icann.org
Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Client Committee

Ignoring for the moment the composition of the Client Committee, I do have
an issue with the transparency of the process.

Having used and managed mailing lists for well over 3 decades, there is a
very large difference between the "push" technology of being on a mailing
list and the "pull" technology of having access to the list archives. I scan
what arrives in my in-box. I rarely have the time or patience to read what
is in archives I have access to.

I strongly suggest that we allow all CWG Members/Participants to be
subscribed to the cwg-client list, even if they are not given posting
rights.

Moreover, in the interest of transparency, I also suggest that the list
membership be viewable to all, regardless of whether they are members of the
list or not.

Alan

At 10/03/2015 08:15 AM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:

All,

A couple of points to add / re-iterate for complete clarity:

1.       The client committee remains as was i.e. the four members and has
not had ICANN legal added to it
2.       The mailing list was set up to facilitate the work of the client
committee - primarily communication between the CC & Sidley - but to do so
in an open and transparent method. 
Therefore "cwg-client at icann.org" is visible to all. This is clearly
extremely unusual in client / lawyer relationship but done so for (I hope)
obvious reasons.

The working methods of the client committee are work in progress and linked
to from the URL below:
https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocwgdtstwrdshp/Client+Committee 
Please feel free to assist in refining these by proposing any updates to the
working methods document.

Overall, the intention is that any discussions, meetings etc that take place
between the client committee and Sidley and are visible and clear to all
(including ICANN Legal / Kevin), primarily via "cwg-client at icann.org".

I understand the principle highlighted by Robin below but wonder if, given
that the transparency of the "cwg-client at icann.org" list, it is advantageous
in some way to retain ICANN Legal's permission to post to the list e.g. for
items of clarification, additional information etc? We have no sense of
ICANN Legal's intention to post to the list and could simply check with them
if they are interested to retain that right (which has been given to them at
the set-up of the mailing list without significant debate or discussion).
Personally, my inclination is to leave it as is for the moment but I haven't
had the opportunity to discuss it with Lise nor fully absorb the feedback /
concerns from the CWG.

Thanks.

Jonathan

From: James Gannon [ mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net
<mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net> ] 
Sent: 10 March 2015 00:40
To: Robin Gross
Cc: cwg-stewardship at icann.org
Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Client Committee

Agreed thats a fair point. 

On 10 Mar 2015, at 00:33, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:

Well, the ICANN website says that 3 ICANN attorneys are also included on the
CWG Client Committee mailing list (Samantha, John J, Kevin from Jones Day)
and meetings.  And ICANN's lawyers are also part of the conversations with
the CWG Client Cmte, so it seems like they are participants of the Client
Cmte, even if not labeled as such. 

Since the phase of retaining the law firm and needing ICANN's help
identifying conflicts is over, ICANN's lawyers should no longer be
participants on the CWG Client Committee mailing list, meetings,
discussions, etc., if the client committee can be said to be independent of
the conflict.

Thanks,
Robin

On Mar 9, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:

Robin,

My understanding is that there are only 4 members of the client committee:
Greg, Maartin, Lise and Jonathan.  I have seen nothing that expanded the
membership.  The fact that others have been involved with the client
committee in finalizing the arrangements with Sidley is in my understanding
simply a result of the fact that ICANN is funding the effort and has to be a
legal party to the agreement, which you probably understand better than me.

Chuck

From: cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org [
mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
<mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Robin Gross
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 8:01 PM
To: jrobinson at afilias.info
Cc: cwg-stewardship at icann.org 
Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Client Committee

Thanks, Jonathan.  I'm concerned about inclusion of more ICANN
representatives than community representatives on the CWG Client Committee:
  https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocwgdtstwrdshp/Client+Committee 

When did CWG decide it would allow 5 ICANN representatives, including 3 of
ICANN's attorneys on the CWG's Client Committee?  Secretarial support work
is fine, but actual participation is another thing entirely.

We are supposed to obtain truly independent legal advice.  So why are we
re-introducing the conflict we are trying to avoid into the Client
Committee?

I suggest a CWG discussion about the appropriateness of ICANN's attorneys
remaining on the Client Committee going forward.  Now that outside counsel
has been retained, any need for their involvement to help identify possible
conflicts has been removed.

Thanks,
Robin
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On Mar 8, 2015, at 3:48 PM, Jonathan Robinson wrote:

All,

We are following up on the very good news that the Client Committee has
successfully worked with ICANN staff to secure the retention of Sidley
Austin. First, particular thanks are due to Greg Shatan for the
extraordinary effort he has put in to assist the committee with all aspects
of its work.

Since the CWG initially discussed and agreed the set-up and composition of
the Client Committee, there has been some e-mail discussion regarding the
functioning of the Committee. As you know, the composition comprises the two
co-chairs and two legally qualified individuals (Greg Shatan and Maarten
Simon) which is a manageable size and contains appropriately qualified
members. The Committee was set up to provide an effective interface between
the CWG and the firm providing the CWG with appropriate advice on the
relevant legal issues. However, prior to that, the first task of the
Committee was to secure the services of a suitably qualified firm and that
job is now complete. Therefore, now seems to be a good time to seek input on
the working of the Client Committee.

The Client Committee remains required in order to provide a coherent
interface between the CWG & the retained law firm because it is not
practical or cost-effective for a group the size of the CWG to continuously
interact with the retained law firm at all times. However, in order for the
CWG (and anyone relying on the work of the CWG) to have confidence in the
work of the Client Committee, the CWG needs to fully trust that the Client
Committee will accurately and effectively transmit and represent the issues
and challenges facing the CWG. And moreover, that there will be
opportunities for the CWG to interact directly with the law firm in order to
enhance that confidence and clarify issues where relevant. As per the
announcement of the selection of Sidley, representatives of the firm will be
at the CWG meeting on Tuesday to both listen and interact.

Therefore, what (if any) changes to the working methods of the Client
Committee should be made so that the CWG can be as confident as possible in
the capabilities and work of the Client Committee as this crucial aspect of
the CWG's work commences in earnest?

Thank-you,

Jonathan & Lise

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