[Gnso-epdp-team] For your review - proposed response to Göran Marby

Wed May 8 23:12:35 UTC 2019

Hi,

I also agree with much of what has been said.  As I mentioned on our last
call it will be important that we understand the goals and what commitment
is expected.  While I don't object to working with the DPAs and EDPB, we
shouldn't expect much useful input or guidance from them until (as Thomas
reminded us) we finish our homework.  While the TSG model is a piece of the
puzzle it has never been clear to me how any privacy expert can opine on
the relevance/effectiveness/"legal ness" of TSG model alone.   So let's get
to work on getting the other pieces of this puzzle (Phase 2, unresolved
Phase 1 issues, etc. ) to a state where a more complete picture can be
gleaned.

Alex

Once we complete Phase 2 (including items punted from Phase 1)

___________
*Alex Deacon*
Cole Valley Consulting
alex at colevalleyconsulting.com
+1.415.488.6009

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:30 AM Thomas Rickert <epdp at gdpr.ninja> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I agree with much of what’s been said.
>
> It is difficult for us to understand what exactly the discussion are going
> to focus on as we have not witnessed previous exchanges.
>
> We got signals from the authorities previously that we we / ICANN should
> do our homework and that tanhible results should be presented and sought
> feedback on. I think it is critically important that
>
> - our group does some work
> - then discusses this with ICANN and then starts an exchange with the EC.
>
> During such exchange, neither the small team nor ICANN should make any
> promises or agreements.
>
> This it not to push such exchange into a distant future, but we need to
> prepare properly in order not to mess this up.
>
> As a consequence, my suggestion would be to communicate to Göran that
>
> - we are happy to send a small team / delegation
> - the meeting should be properly prepared and a time for such exchange
> should be jointly determined and
> - neither the small team nor ICANN makes any commitments.
>
> Best,
> Thomas
>
> Am 08.05.2019 um 18:54 schrieb Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>:
>
> Hi,
>
> It's less clear to me, exactly for the reason Matt outlined below. How are
> we meant to inform any discussion on a UAM, whether it be a model proposed
> by the TSG or otherwise, until we’ve come up with our own answers to the
> many questions we still need to tackle? If we had been invited to inform
> discussions after we had completed phase 2 of our work, it would have been
> a more straight-forward matter. But that isn’t the case just yet.
>
> Don’t get me wrong. I’m not opposed to working with Goran’s team on this
> at all. At a minimum, being directly engaged with whatever discussions are
> taking place with the EC and DPAs is bound to be helpful to informing OUR
> work. However, I’m still not clear on how WE are the ones who will be
> “helping inform the discussion…,” at this time. Just saying that we will
> doesn’t quite do it for me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Amr
>
> On May 8, 2019, at 3:54 PM, Matt Serlin <matt at brandsight.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Hadia and team,
>
> I agree from Goran’s letter the mandate of the small team is clear…what
> isn’t quite clear is how that mandate fits into the overall work plan for
> the broader group and how these two efforts ultimately will merge.
>
> Personally speaking I am very concered that before we have really started
> our Phase 2 work at all, we are already looking to break off a certain
> group to work with ICANN on a critically important piece of the puzzle to
> our success.
>
> And let’s not forget our old friend Phase 1 which, to date, has not been
> approved by the Board and even when it is will still need to be implemented.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>
> *From: *Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
> Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia at tra.gov.eg>
> *Date: *Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 6:59 AM
> *To: *Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>, Volker Greimann <
> vgreimann at key-systems.net>, "gnso-epdp-team at icann.org" <
> gnso-epdp-team at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] For your review - proposed response to
> Göran Marby
>
> All,
>
> The mandate of the small team  is quite clear, and that is to work on
> helping inform the discussions with the EC and the data protection
> authorities in relation to a UAM, based on the model proposed by the TSG
> and the extent to which such a solution diminishes the legal liability of
> the contracted parties.
> So certainly, the role of the small team is not to observe the work of
> ICANN org and report it back, If this was the purpose, someone from ICANN
> org could have taken on the role.
>
> Generally speaking the expected output of the whole EPDP team is a
> scenario that satisfies the above and is accepted by the EC and the data
> protection authorities. A solution that respects the privacy rights, allows
> lawful access to third parties with legitimate interests and diminishes the
> contracted parties legal liabilities.
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Hadia
>
> *From:* Gnso-epdp-team [mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org
> <gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Amr Elsadr
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 08, 2019 1:25 PM
> *To:* Volker Greimann; gnso-epdp-team at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] For your review - proposed response to
> Göran Marby
>
> +1 to this.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Amr
>
> Sent from Mobile
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:22 PM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> wrote:
>
> Should we maybe add a line that any input from such a small group would
> only be tentative and subject to confirmation by the whole group? We are at
> the start of the work here and I have strong reservation of delegating a
> core part of our work to a small team without even having first outlined
> the position of the entire group.
>
> It seems to be too soon for this.
>
> If on the other hand the only purpose of the small group is to observe the
> work of ICANN org and report back to the EPDP to inform our deliberations,
> that would be more acceptable.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
> Am 04.05.2019 um 14:12 schrieb Marika Konings:
>
> Dear EPDP Team,
>
> On behalf of Janis, per the action item from our last meeting, please find
> attached the proposed response to Göran in relation to this letter (see
> https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/marby-to-karklins-drazek-01may19-en.pdf
> ).
>
> Please share any comments you may have by Wednesday 8 May at the latest.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Caitlin, Berry and Marika
>
> *Marika Konings*
> *Vice President, Policy Development Support – GNSO, Internet Corporation
> for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) *
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> Volker A. Greimann
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