[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Response from international law expert

Wed Mar 11 17:18:57 UTC 2015

I also thought his qualifications and analysis were substantially lacking.

Mike Rodenbaugh
RODENBAUGH LAW
tel/fax:  +1.415.738.8087
http://rodenbaugh.com

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Paul Keating <paul at law.es> wrote:

> Having read the report I wholeheartedly agree with George.
>
> The respondent had not practiced for over a decade and his comments were
> based upon a very limited number of inapplicable scenarios and with no
> reference to legal authority or judicial opinion. He had no background
> knowledge of the UDRP.
>
> I have been absent from a the past several meetings but wonder why this
> person was asked instead of the many other more qualified attorneys. It
> certainly can't be for lack of available funds.   If we are to seek legal
> advice we should seek it from more traditional sources and be prepared to
> pay for the service. If funds are needed we should seek them from ICANN.
>
> Sincerely,
> Paul Keating, Esq.
>
> > On 11 Mar 2015, at 16:35, George Kirikos <icann at leap.com> wrote:
> >
> > With respect, I believe his statement in relation to Section 29 is
> > somewhat misleading. The language of Section 29 explicitly states that
> > it applies to disputes arising out of CONTRACTS TO WHICH THE UNITED
> > NATIONS IS A PARTY. The United Nations is not a party to the domain
> > name registration agreement for domain names that they deem to be
> > infringing their rights (the only parties are the registrar and the
> > registrant).
> >
> > I think the answer to question #1 is also incomplete, since it seems
> > to be predicated on that existing contractual relationship, where an
> > arbitration agreement already exists. It does not consider the broader
> > classes of disputes, e.g. where someone in Toronto launches a cafe
> > named "UNESCO" -- the UN agency named UNESCO (obviously??) can't
> > compel that cafe owner to participate in an arbitration. A specific
> > answer to that scenario should be provided, and more broadly, how they
> > enforce their alleged rights in the offline world in cooperation with
> > law enforcement, etc.
> >
> > Also, it seems he's unaware that the standard domain name registration
> > agreement that IGOs (including the UN, for un.org) have entered into
> > specify jurisdictions for 3rd party disputes, including acceptance of
> > the UDRP! (i.e. a 3rd party owning a TM for "UN" could file a
> > (frivolous) UDRP against the United Nations, and the United Nations
> > would be compelled to defend it).
> >
> > Other than broad references and a few anecdotes, the 'answers' lack
> > real rigour (e.g. no references to case law, precedents, etc.).
> > Furthermore, they lack independence -- it's clear he's an advocate for
> > the UN's positions, not an independent 3rd party with relevant
> > experience and research in the area we are discussing.
> >
> > Personally, the 'answers' appear helpful only to the extent that they
> > demonstrate that greater education/awareness is required. They
> > certainly don't meet any  threshold for justifying changes to the
> > status quo.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > George Kirikos
> > 416-588-0269
> > http://www.leap.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org> wrote:
> >> Dear WG members,
> >>
> >> We have received a response from Mr. Hans Corell, the international law
> >> expert to whom we had sent the list of questions on sovereign immunity,
> >> prepared in consultation with our WG co-chairs Petter and Phil. Mr.
> Corell
> >> is a former Swedish diplomat and was from 1994-2004 the
> >> Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs and Legal Counsel for the
> United
> >> Nations. He is presently an adviser to a number of international bodies,
> >> including ICANN and the International Bar Association, where he is the
> >> current Co-Chair of the Council of the Human Rights Institute. I attach
> a
> >> copy of his full CV to this email, but you can also see his professional
> >> biography and current appointments here:
> >> http://www.havc.se/PresentEngagements.htm and
> >> http://www.havc.se/res/SelectedMaterial/20140721shortbio.pdf.
> >>
> >> In order to try to gain an initial understanding of the scope of the
> >> international legal principle of sovereign immunity as it applies to
> IGOs,
> >> we provided Mr. Corell with some basic background information into our
> work
> >> and the reason for asking the specific questions we enclosed. We did
> not,
> >> however, go into detail about the progress and workings of the WG,
> including
> >> our interaction with the IGOs – so you will see from his response that
> some
> >> of his comments are based on general rather than more specific
> information.
> >> You will see also that he has certain questions for the WG, which may be
> >> helpful avenues for follow up.
> >>
> >> As such, staff thought that the WG may wish to discuss both Mr. Corell’s
> >> answers to the questions that were posed to him as well as possible
> >> follow-up action on the WG call this Wednesday. For instance, we could
> >> develop a subsequent set of questions  that we can provide along with a
> note
> >> summarizing the IGOs’ position on the matter, so that he can provide us
> with
> >> more detailed input.
> >>
> >> Please note that Petter and Phil have not yet had a chance to review Mr.
> >> Corell’s response. Do note also that representatives of the UN legal
> counsel
> >> were participants in the original IGO-INGO PDP WG that preceded our
> work,
> >> and I believe may also be represented in the IGO “small group” that
> sent us
> >> their January 205 response. As such, a further point for WG discussion
> may
> >> be how we follow up with the IGO “small group” after having reviewed
> their
> >> and Mr. Corell’s response.
> >>
> >> For completeness I attach also a copy of the initial note and questions
> that
> >> were sent to Mr. Corell.
> >>
> >> Thanks and cheers
> >> Mary
> >>
> >> Mary Wong
> >> Senior Policy Director
> >> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
> >> Telephone: +1 603 574 4892
> >> Email: mary.wong at icann.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
> >> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp at icann.org
> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
> > Gnso-igo-ingo-crp at icann.org
> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
> _______________________________________________
> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/attachments/20150311/d79f018f/attachment.html>