[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] MP3, Attendance & AC Chat for IGO-INGO CRP PDP WG call on Thursday, 06 April 2017
Terri Agnew
terri.agnew at icann.org
Thu Apr 6 19:43:25 UTC 2017
Dear All,
Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording
below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on
Thursday, 06 April 2017 at 16:00 UTC.
Mp3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-06apr17-en.mp3
AC Recording:
<https://participate.icann.org/p7xck5bcvss/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=e3a2073779853843
886d55424ea456ee1ea5baaa166576b62ea40857bdfd81ad>
https://participate.icann.org/p7xck5bcvss/
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gn
so-2Dcrp-2Dpdp-2D13oct16-2Den.mp3&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6s
Jms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsj
Wv9&m=asM5JoG30Yqf49-Nims9k3McNfFtmzlAe1HmuXI6wic&s=0nZvoU1RqsjvPcNWDN_a2vVZ
Dp9uXeyGO8NN2dN5h74&e=>
On page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page:
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group
-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7x
cl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m
=wBBn3Ar2_mvUeGcM8rpOAyluUFEJFG5lASQ-cAccI2k&s=3BfiwO43tzwlrIbIyBY4Q-14zsFQC
X518fLLR8GWR7I&e=> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
Attendees:
David Maher - RySG
George Kirikos - Individual
Jay Chapman - Individual
Paul Tattersfield - Individual
Petter Rindforth - IPC (co-chair)
Phil Corwin - BC (co-chair)
Mason Cole - RySG
Apologies:
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Steve Chan
Dennis Chang
Terri Agnew
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/
Wiki Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/NMfRAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 06 April 2017
Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative
Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 06 April 2017
at 16:00 UTC.
Michelle DeSmyter:Meeting wiki page:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_N
MfRAw
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
NMfRAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=TzrUf25YGuntVxSRK1aTNWz9K32sPy9MfC9E04T3y5
E&s=qO2QdwRLXEhp5AVUwlbKIZB_4R7P4wt8_OLc-hi7qMI&e>
&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=TzrUf25YGuntVxSRK1aTNWz9K32sPy9MfC9E04T3y5E&s=qO
2QdwRLXEhp5AVUwlbKIZB_4R7P4wt8_OLc-hi7qMI&e=
George Kirikos:Hi folks.
Steve Chan:Hi George, welcome
George Kirikos:Hey Steve. How's it going?
Steve Chan:All is well! I've got oatmeal and an IGO/INGO CRP meeting.
George Kirikos:Yummy!
George Kirikos:Welcome Petter.
Petter Rindforth:The same!
George Kirikos:First come, first served! :-)
George Kirikos:If there was a Sunrise period for chairing, Petter would
win.
Paul Tattersfield:Hi Guys
George Kirikos:Hey Paul.
George Kirikos:Did the 90 minute meeting kill participation?
Mary Wong:@Phil, @Petter - do you think we have quorum?
Paul Tattersfield:I think its the weather it looks beautiful outsde here
George
George Kirikos:5 is a bit low.
George Kirikos:Perhaps 8 would be a better number?
George Kirikos:6.
Mary Wong:OK, we will make sure to remind all WG members via the mailing
list to review the recording, transcript and documents from today.
George Kirikos:There's a bit of crackling on the line -- is that just me?
Mary Wong:@George, I hear it too
George Kirikos:It's hurting my brain.
George Kirikos:GAC letter is at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00023.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00023.html&d=DwI
FaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=TzrUf25YGuntVxSRK1aTNWz9K32sPy9MfC9E04T3y5E&s=klnQZMDD
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&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
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nQZMDDErwnvDa77GXHnk2H-8eIrJoKfZayzNJ51Ss&e= for those who want to read it
outside the Adobe.
Terri Agnew:Welcome Mason Cole
Jay Chapman:I agree with you, Phil
Jay Chapman:and Petter
Mason Cole:Thanks Terri, sorry to be late.
George Kirikos:Hi Mason.
Mary Wong:We have the full comments from GAC, USG, OECD and WIPO ready to
upload as well as the staff table and the slides from Copenhagen (which
excerpts the GAC, USG, OECD and WIPO comments by recommendation). Just let
us know which you'd like to see on screen.
George Kirikos:Did we ever hear back from the IGOs re: further
participation by them, as we conclude our work?
George Kirikos:(i.e. we did try outreach, and it was suggested we continue
that outreach)
Mason Cole:To my memory, yes.
George Kirikos:Disagree with that characterization by the GAC. It's just a
more well-researched insight into standing, more than any individual
UDRP/URS panelist could ever do, that is *consistent* with common law
rights.
George Kirikos:(and thus consistent with the UDRP, not an alteration of
the UDRP)
George Kirikos:You can't always get what you want But if you try sometimes
you just might find You just might find You get what you need :-)
Paul Tattersfield:Domain Name System should accommodate legitimate
third-party co-existence is a new and important principle
George Kirikos:There are other entities "most affected", i.e. registrants.
Mary Wong:Shall we move to the USG comment?
George Kirikos:WIPO's was shorter.
George Kirikos:USG comment is at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00013.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00013.html&d=DwI
FaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
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&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
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LgOchkaWP0uWQCkSQlRxsHRPLWxJR-CKiNSSSKpMA&e=
Mary Wong:Sorry for the delay, the wrong document had been uploaded
previously!
Paul Tattersfield:One after thought on the GAC comments I think we should
make note of the GAC's comments that Domain Name System should accommodate
legitimate third-party co-existence is a new and important principle
George Kirikos:+1 Paul
George Kirikos:It's informative that they concede that is not even a
consensus on Article 6ter's interpretation amongst themselves.
George Kirikos:*that there
George Kirikos:Would love to know the list of "fake IGOs".
George Kirikos:I wonder if they're objecting to some countries that have
entries in the Article 6ter DB?
George Kirikos:(i.e. they're countries, but not IGOs?)
George Kirikos:e.g. a state emblem for "Canada"
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wipo.int_cgi-2D6te_i
fetch5-3FENG-2BSIXTER-2B15-2D00-2B11520870-2DKEY-2B256-2B0-2B154-2BF-2DENG-2
B2-2B2-2B1-2B25-2BSEP-2D0_HITNUM-2CB-2Bcanada
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wipo.int_cgi-2D6te_
ifetch5-3FENG-2BSIXTER-2B15-2D00-2B11520870-2DKEY-2B256-2B0-2B154-2BF-2DENG-
2B2-2B2-2B1-2B25-2BSEP-2D0_HITNUM-2CB-2Bcanada&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3
mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=Tz
rUf25YGuntVxSRK1aTNWz9K32sPy9MfC9E04T3y5E&s=cAf-UV-C3kz4N2upK6PKTP_yOER-bgbV
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&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
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George Kirikos:We can hear you.
George Kirikos:Right, evidence of common law rights is what we've
suggested all along, isn't it?
George Kirikos:(strong evidence, even)
Philip Corwin:IMHO, letting 6ter notification be used as evidence of
common law TM rights would not convert it that notification in establishing
a right.
Mary Wong:@Phil, thanks - as mentioned, staff isn't advocating either way,
just noting the need to flesh this out further in discussion
George Kirikos:Are we done with the USG?
George Kirikos:OECD is at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00002.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00002.html&d=DwI
FaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=TzrUf25YGuntVxSRK1aTNWz9K32sPy9MfC9E04T3y5E&s=s4VbfpdV
afJEabO6DByN92-nr1ajD-QbM3Sj8cTVy48&e>
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George Kirikos:Yes, they're happy with Article 6ter.
George Kirikos:Since Article 6ter list is mostly a superset of the IGO
small group standing.
Mary Wong:I suppose 6ter is international law, so that's the agreement?
George Kirikos:That's hilarious, see:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wipo.int_article6ter
_en_legal-5Ftexts_article-5F6ter.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wipo.int_article6te
r_en_legal-5Ftexts_article-5F6ter.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkb
PSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=TzrUf25YGu
ntVxSRK1aTNWz9K32sPy9MfC9E04T3y5E&s=nCthNZWR9pmjZf6X6MHirkzWNj-uGM5qOjGp4hDl
kCo&e>
&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
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George Kirikos:They can't cherry pick the parts of the treaty they like.
George Kirikos:It's not really new. But, it's not a major issue. The
question is whether you can *compel* someone to agree to arbitration.
George Kirikos:WIPO's comments at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00000.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00000.html&d=DwI
FaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
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U-qkvy8aMPfHJ41sfm2KZlBCI_ab3qqMp8Y&e>
&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
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George Kirikos:Maybe we should peruse Mary's summary document, too, to get
familiar with it, before we dig into other comments later?
George Kirikos:Paul had a good comment re: the NY Times article WIPO
mentioned.
Mary Wong:@George, it's Mary & Steve's joint production (but I take
responsibility for the awful formatting due to a bad initial template)!
George Kirikos:See Paul's comment at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00038.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
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George Kirikos:Desire, not need.
George Kirikos:It was a pretty weak letter, compared to the OECD one.
Paul Tattersfield:recognition of co-existence principles is new from WIPO
George Kirikos:Probably WIPO is the organizer of the IGOs' efforts, so
they defer to them, rather than engaging in independent analysis.
George Kirikos:There was something new in the footnote on page 2,
suggesting that there was "capture" by [registration] parties.
George Kirikos:Which is odd, coming from a group that negotiated secretly
with the GAC.
Paul Tattersfield:Thanks Mary that would be helpful
George Kirikos:NAF didn't file anything.
Mary Wong:When our group comes to discuss the separate DRP point, it may
be useful to engage with the providers at that point, including NAF.
George Kirikos:I lost my connection.
George Kirikos:Calling back.
Terri Agnew:@George, also alerting op
George Kirikos:I'm back.
Terri Agnew:welcome back George
George Kirikos:Can I finish my earlier comment?
George Kirikos:(I got cut off)
George Kirikos:lol
Paul Tattersfield:naughty
George Kirikos:Which
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_
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George Kirikos:MIGA is also World Bank.
George Kirikos:Wait a sec? There's another World Bank comment too:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00033.html
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George Kirikos:Oops, I guess that's the same comment.
Mary Wong:@George, MIGA is an agency of the World Bank.
George Kirikos:Right, Mary.
George Kirikos:So we're looking at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00033.html
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Mary Wong:Yes, I believe so.
George Kirikos:It's an odd comment, given that the World Bank actually
USED the UDRP successfullly.
Mary Wong:It may be a misunderstanding of our recommendation about 6ter?
George Kirikos:It may even be a misunderstanding of the UDRP itself, Mary,
as Petter mentioned.
George Kirikos:Lack of institutional memory, given World Bank used the
UDRP and won.
George Kirikos:(probably from someone new, who wasn't aware of the World
Bank's past UDRP success)
Petter Rindforth:Rather a misunderstanding of the UDRP. Local protection
is only needed for ccDRPs
George Kirikos:"The World Bank admits that the privileges and immunities
of IGOs are not a simple topic." LOL About deference to IGOs.
Mary Wong:@Phil, that is correct (re Board request to the GNSO on Small
Group Proposal)
George Kirikos:They seem unfamiliar with the multistakeholder process.
George Kirikos:Assignment has already worked.
George Kirikos:UNITAID case.
George Kirikos:"For one thing, the assignment may well be rejected by the
UDRP or a court." FALSE, given it has already worked.
Mary Wong:@Phil, staff presumes they were talking about waiving immunity
when responding to a UDRP complaint filed by someone else
George Kirikos:+1 Phil.
George Kirikos:Legal principles are robust enough to handle new
technology.
George Kirikos:Staff Table is also at:
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/attachments/20170405/2235865
2/PublicCommentReviewTool-InitialReport-4April2017-0001.pdf
Mary Wong:Yes and yes, Phil
George Kirikos:Very productive call today!
Paul Tattersfield:Agree George
George Kirikos:Well done by Phil and Petter on keeping us on track.
Petter Rindforth:It's possible thanks to Staff and active WG members
George Kirikos:Maybe we should move the NOTES in Adobe to the left, so we
can have a wider area for the document next week?
George Kirikos:(since the tables are so wide)
George Kirikos:(i.e. to rearrange the pods)
Mary Wong:@George, we'll see what IT will allow us to do
George Kirikos:Oh, ok. I thought that it was something that staff had
control over, easily. (not sure what your interface is)
Jay Chapman:Agree - excellent progress
Mary Wong:@George, we have this thing about consistency of tools across
the org :)
George Kirikos:Bye everyone!
Jay Chapman:thanks, all
Paul Tattersfield:thanks all bye
Mary Wong:Thanks everybody!
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