[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] MP3, Attendance & AC Chat for IGO-INGO CRP PDP WG call on Thursday, 13 April 2017
Terri Agnew
terri.agnew at icann.org
Thu Apr 13 18:38:39 UTC 2017
Dear All,
Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording and
chat below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held
on Thursday, 13 April 2017 at 16:00 UTC.
Mp3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-13apr17-en.mp3
AC Recording:
<https://participate.icann.org/p1s5qin33ve/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=436763efcaabf56f
d0227f108d44d3c705d81ed2dd669eac5ee8f7b29a7d3189>
https://participate.icann.org/p1s5qin33ve/
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gn
so-2Dcrp-2Dpdp-2D13oct16-2Den.mp3&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6s
Jms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsj
Wv9&m=asM5JoG30Yqf49-Nims9k3McNfFtmzlAe1HmuXI6wic&s=0nZvoU1RqsjvPcNWDN_a2vVZ
Dp9uXeyGO8NN2dN5h74&e=>
On page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page:
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group
-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7x
cl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m
=wBBn3Ar2_mvUeGcM8rpOAyluUFEJFG5lASQ-cAccI2k&s=3BfiwO43tzwlrIbIyBY4Q-14zsFQC
X518fLLR8GWR7I&e=> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
Attendees:
David Maher - RySG
George Kirikos - Individual
Jay Chapman - Individual
Paul Tattersfield - Individual
Petter Rindforth - IPC (co-chair)
Phil Corwin - BC (co-chair)
Poncelet Ileleji - NPOC
Mason Cole - RySG
Paul Keating - NCUC
Apologies:
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Steve Chan
Dennis Chang
Berry Cobb
Terri Agnew
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/
Wiki Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/1MzRAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 13 April 2017
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection
Mechanisms Working Group on Thursday, 13 April 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90
minutes
Terri Agnew:wiki agenda page:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_1
MzRAw
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
1MzRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SI
Y&s=O1Jx20t1U7NEY3spBINHjJup_sSVEugjL1FcX-Flldw&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=O1
Jx20t1U7NEY3spBINHjJup_sSVEugjL1FcX-Flldw&e=
George Kirikos:Hi folks.
Petter Rindforth:Hi All
Paul Tattersfield:Hi All
George Kirikos:Last week we had 7 participants.
George
Kirikos:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/2017-April/000696.ht
ml
Paul Tattersfield:I will have to leave early today I can only stay for 40
minutes at the latest as I have another meeting
Terri Agnew:thank yor for the notice Paul
Poncelet Ileleji:Greetings All
Terri Agnew:Welcome Jay Chapman
George Kirikos:I think Mary's list in the email had them 4th, so that
would make sense to keep them last. :-)
Mary Wong:I just thought it would be easier to do Contracted Parties as
one group, Non Contracted as another. In the former, the Registries sent
their comment in before the Registrars. For the latter, the BC's came in
before IPC's anyway.
George Kirikos:Thanks for rearranging the pods, by the way! We have more
room now. :-)
George Kirikos:(just noticed that)
George Kirikos:BC Comments at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00020.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00020.html&d=DwI
CaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=GFHvBqKE
OEbK4Z04fz9FiBbvGi8n723d207nkeEXdKE&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=GF
HvBqKEOEbK4Z04fz9FiBbvGi8n723d207nkeEXdKE&e=
Mary Wong:BC comment on screen now
Terri Agnew:Welcome Mason Cole
George Kirikos:Are we alternating comments? Phil's turn?
Mary Wong:Oh dear hang on we don't have that one ready
Mason Cole:Sorry I'm late, thanks Terri
George Kirikos:Registries, Registrars, then IPC?
George Kirikos:(those were the big 4)
George Kirikos:Here's the RySG comments:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00034.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00034.html&d=DwI
CaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=GZzZ60uJ
-GUOedlTUAZqB0QvvoI5-sZJO2m3BU3G5lM&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=GZ
zZ60uJ-GUOedlTUAZqB0QvvoI5-sZJO2m3BU3G5lM&e=
George Kirikos:The last bullet point of section 4 was very good, for the
2nd last sentence.
Mary Wong:We have members from some of the SG/Cs who commented on the
call; please feel free to provide additional context on your SG/C comment if
appropriate!
George Kirikos:Yes, perhaps David Maher can elaborate, as he's with the
RySG.
George Kirikos:So is Mason.
George Kirikos:Opens Pandora's box.
Mason Cole:That was the concern, George. IGOs get free access, then
there's a line forming for other parties that want free access too.
Mason Cole:Don't think so, Petter, but thanks.
Poncelet Ileleji:Thanks fine with me
George Kirikos:Here's the RrSG comment:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_c
omments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00046.html
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_
comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00046.html&d=DwI
CaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar
9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=pp_UthIG
tsX5V0sk7taONC-NncYjy4K1JLVY_0LVHS0&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=pp
_UthIGtsX5V0sk7taONC-NncYjy4K1JLVY_0LVHS0&e=
David Maher (RySG):+1 Mason
George Kirikos:That was a good point about creation of a new bureaucracy.
That's consistent with leaning towards option 1, for #4, rather than
creating a new mechanism that needs to be maintained, etc.
paul keating:Hello all. I am sorry I am late.
George Kirikos:Welcome, Paul Keating. We just went through the BC,
Registrars, and Registries comments. Now on to the IPC.
George Kirikos:ISP constituency didn't file anything either, nor did ALAC.
George Kirikos:(but individuals did; ALAC is supposed to represent some of
the individual users, etc.)
George Kirikos:They oppose "Policy Guidance" at all.
George Kirikos:The seem to support common law rights. We're saying that
6ter is evidence of those common law rights, essentially, and sufficient.
Since TMs are already territorial, it's not a stretch to include Article
6ter too, despite rejection by any national TM office.
George Kirikos:*The = They for first word above.
George Kirikos:Those would have been complaints brought by national
authorities, though.
George Kirikos:(e.g. a magazine called "WHO" giving out bad health advice)
Petter Rindforth:However, note that WIPO don't want to add new
identification of name rights that may also be claimed by other groups
George Kirikos:That seems contradictory.
George Kirikos:+1 Phil
Paul Tattersfield:I thought that George
George Kirikos:Ok.
paul keating 2:i hear a big echo.'
George Kirikos:You're logged in twice. Is the echo just on your end? (no
echo here)
paul keating 2:I get 2 voites : sorry I will correct now
paul keating:The in REM process does not exist in many jurisdictions. it
is a US jurisprudence concept. In fact it is very difficult to bring a
proper legal claim post UDRP if you are a res[pondent. The courts do not
recognize there being any basis for a claim. Remember that many other
jurisdictions are civil law jurisdicdtions and if it i snot authorized by
statutte it is not authorized.
Paul Tattersfield:Just when it gets interesting I have to leave, sorry.
Thanks all bye.
George Kirikos:+1 Paul. Apparently Australians have had problems with
domain appeals entirely.
George Kirikos:That's bizarre --- we're giving more deference.
George Kirikos:We're saying Article 6ter is enough, on top of any other
ways they have to prove standing (e.g. common law rights). We're giving them
prong #1 automatically, essentially, knowing that a domain owner can still
win with #2 or #3 of the 3-prong UDRP test.
George Kirikos:They oppose the policy guidance aspect, again.
George Kirikos:Which relates to their actual limitations in Article 6ter,
which allow coexistence.
George Kirikos:We already provided a mechanism where an IGO can avoid
immunity (to counter the last sentence of that 2nd paragraph).
George Kirikos:Perhaps the IPC supports arbitration, as some of their
members are arbitrators. $$$$$ :-)
George Kirikos:Additional outreach to the IPC?
Petter Rindforth:That's correct - longstanding support for a separate DRP
Jay Chapman:Agree, Phil
Mary Wong:@George, IPC says 6ter does not give standing so that opposes
Rec 2.
George Kirikos:@Mary: rights are already territorial. Their footnote
points to the US Government comments, which also provided no legal
argumetns.
George Kirikos:*arguments.
George Kirikos:Is there a meeting next week? Or just in 2 weeks? (like the
RPM working group)
Mary Wong:@George, understood. As you know, staff is on record for our
concern that indeed 6ter does not confer substantive rights and hence cannot
confer standing under the UDRP in the absence of specific legal rights aside
from national TM rights.
Mary Wong:In no particular order, we have Internet Infrastructure
Coalition, ICA, and FICPI (I think that's what Petter mentioned at the
beginning?)
Philip Corwin:Can we free up scrolling on the i2C document?
Mary Wong:I can go to FICPI or others first
Philip Corwin:Thx
George Kirikos:Their comments on process echo those made by others, and
should be noted.
George Kirikos:Were there "many" broken hyperlinks? (I checked most in
earlier drafts)
Mary Wong:@George, I didn't think so - we checked quite a few too before
publication. I guess we (staff) should check them all before publishing the
Final Report.
George Kirikos:I wonder if there are any automated tools from Adobe to
automatically follow links to check for 404 errors, etc.
Petter Rindforth:FICPI are members of IPC
Mary Wong:They are quite active in the international IP arena.
George Kirikos:They agree that Article 6ter 1(c) is consisnted with the
UDRP too. (so our policy guidance is appropriate).
George Kirikos:That's a good point that WIPO issues "Model Complaints and
Filing Guidelines" (incuding their WIPO Overview). Further support for
policy guidance (consistent with policy, not changing the policy).
George Kirikos:+1 "More Practical"
Petter Rindforth:Several FICPI members are also panellists basically in
Eurpoe and Asia
paul keating:Recommendation #4 (a) and (b) DOES require a modification of
the UDRP.
George Kirikos:Registrants should be heard from, too (option #1), not just
IGOs.
George Kirikos:Here's FICPI:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ficpi.org_organisati
on_
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ficpi.org_organisat
ion_&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIg
mkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&
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&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=swvDAP5wLPpvYddEDvbZMBJXjaJfylvwv6RPm9c7SIY&s=vr
wMaThwbKXdT9rWKofohX6hsgD7eI1LFksl7ydYUHQ&e=
Mary Wong:@Paul, yes I believe so.
paul keating:no
Mary Wong:Yes I know FICPI
George Kirikos:I linked to them -- they seem to be bigger than the IPC.
paul keating:Petter sounds like a very well developed and compentent
group.
paul keating:Mary pls say again the date and time of the call?
George Kirikos:Or we could skip a week, to stay aligned with the RPM PDP.
Mary Wong:Next Thursday same time same duration (1600 UTC, 90 minutes)
paul keating:thank yoiu
Terri Agnew:@Phil, apology noted for next weeks call
George Kirikos:Same time as now.
Poncelet Ileleji:Much appreciated for all the work done of the couple of
months, I have followed keenly via the mailing list
Poncelet Ileleji:over the ssorry for typo
George Kirikos:We should list the comments we're going to review, e.g. in
order, with links, in the agenda, so we can read them in advance.
Poncelet Ileleji:I noticed NCSG did not have a comment
Mary Wong:@Poncelet, no they did not file
Poncelet Ileleji:OKay noted @Mary
paul keating:thank you all. Good evening.
George Kirikos:Bye folks!
Poncelet Ileleji:Thanks all Bye]
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