[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Some reg'n data I think necessary (was Re: GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group teleconference)

Tue Mar 22 16:35:50 UTC 2016

Hi Greg,

that may be the case at the high level or RIRs and their customers, but 
breaks down at the end customer level.

If I chose to host a webserver from my home, the best you can get in 
public lookups is my DSL provider, who will only store the allocation of 
my user account with that IP as long as that IP is assigned. Once I 
reconnect or reset my connection, the data will be deleted in short 
order, depending on the processes of my DSL provider unless there is a 
legal or service requirement for him to store it beyond that time.

Best,

Volker

Am 22.03.2016 um 17:28 schrieb Greg Aaron:
> Actually, that is not a good analogy, and obscures an important point.  When one registers IP addresses, detailed contact information is _always_ published in the RIR WHOIS database.  (Like this at RIPE: https://apps.db.ripe.net/search/query.html?searchtext=key-systems#resultsAnchor  )
>
> Registering IPs (a.k.a. being allocated IPs by an RIR) is very different, operationally and legally, from being an end-user who is assigned an IP address by your ISP.  RIRs to not publish WHOIS data for the end users of individual IPs (/32s).  But RIRs always publicly publish the identity of the RIR customer who has been allocated any given IP address and is therefore legally and operationally responsible for it.
>
> The parallels between IPs and domain names are not exact, for sure.  But the point is that RIR WHOIS databases do contains detailed contact data for the entities they do business with.
>
> All best,
> --Greg
>
> **********************************
> Greg Aaron
> Vice-President, Product Management
> iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
> mobile: +1.215.858.2257
> **********************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 11:21 AM
> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Some reg'n data I think necessary (was Re: GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group teleconference)
>
> Collection is not the only issue. Another issue is transfer of such data to third parties and publishing it, albeit to a access-limited database.
>
> With regard to collection, such collection must have a business purpose, i.e. be required for providing the service or needs to be covered by a
> (revocable) agreement of the individual whose data is to be collected.
>
> If you are looking at the larger pricture, registering a domain name is not that different from applying for a phone number or being assigned an IP address when you access the internet, yet in those cases the data is not published anywhere and with regard to IP addresses only kept for the time needed to provide (and invoice the service).
> You can opt out of having your phone number published, of course.
>
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 22.03.2016 um 13:29 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
>> Hi,
>>
>> First, when you send to the list could you please use
>> multipart/alternative?  (Your mailer probably has some setting about
>> "HTML-only" vs "plain text alternative".  You can send both.)  I don't
>> use an HTML-rendering mail reader.  Thanks.
>>
>> More substantively,
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:22:13PM -0400, Sam Lanfranco wrote:
>>
>>>       My brain may still be fuzzy from travel but it seems that dozens of
>>>       other online services routinely allow one to contact a party without
>>>       the party's name being published.
>> I would also be content if this WG could talk only about what's
>> published in the RDS, and under what terms.  Unfortunately, the
>> charter also asks us to talk about what data is collected.  Your
>> example cases like dating services, it's true, do not publish the
>> names; but the services most certainly _collect_ that data.  (If they
>> didn't, Ashley Madison's data breach wouldn't have been a big deal.)
>>
>>>       Ability to reach an owner, and
>>>       ability to know who the owner is, are two different abilities.
>> I agree with this.
>>
>>>       If an
>>>       owner refused to disclose or respond, that is their right.
>> Under some circumstances, I agree with this too.  I suspect that this
>> is an example where differential data access would be a big help.
>>
>>>       If they
>>>       are being abusive with the domain name, then the registrar is
>>>       involved.
>> This isn't always true.  For instance, mail abuse frequently does not
>> involve the registrar.  And registrars have limitations on what they
>> can do depending on local contract law and so on, as well.
>> Regardless, the above argument isn't one for the premise that the data
>> shouldn't be collected.  Just that it shouldn't be published for
>> anonymous access on the Internet.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> A
>>
>>
> --
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>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
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> --------------------------------------------
>
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>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.