[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Wed Feb 15 16:22:22 UTC 2017
You seem to be saying: Let's abolish whois altogether since it is all
fake info anyway...?
Am 15.02.2017 um 16:29 schrieb allison nixon:
>
>
> >>That would be providing incorrect whois data and can trigger an
> investigation by ICANN and the registrar, if noticed. Not a good idea.
> Let's not make the option to violate registration policy an argument
> against protection of private data.
>
> Really? because I saw firsthand exactly how serious such an
> investigation is and it's a joke.
>
> >>I am sorry you had that experience. Normally, if evidence is provided
> by the complainant that the whois is incorrect, most registrars will
> require that the registrant provides evidence that the updated data is
> correct, if only to avoid a follow-on complaint. If evidence suggests
> that the address is obviously and intentionally fake and the domain
> likely used in abuse, we may not even wait for the feedback of the
> customer before deactivating.
>
> While my domain was not involved in abuse, making a single address
> change, and saying "I assure you, this is where people should send
> mail" is more than enough to satisfy my registrar. Nothing stops
> someone from making a second complaint against a domain, especially if
> the goal is for takedown or harassment (which it almost always would
> be). And that second complaint would be as equally valid as the first
> one, and equally valid as my subsequent response.
>
> Cue yakety sax.
>
> The emperor wears no clothes.
>
> >>Ah, you misunderstood me. I meant that when I, a customer, get ripped
> off by an Amazon marketplace seller, Amazon will in all likelyhood not
> provide me with all data they have on the culprit. Even the police may
> need a subpoena.
>
> And the registrar doesn't publish payment info when the customer pays
> with a fake credit card. the comparison to WHOIS is nonsensical. WHOIS
> is not involved in private commercial transactions.
>
> >>There has to be some form of due process, anything else is anarchy.
>
> The Internet is in a state of anarchy.
>
> >>Verification may be impossible. Validation on the other hand is
> possible. If you do not like the policy as it stands, propose an
> alternative solution. Ideally also tell us who will pay for it.
>
> I do not actually think that physical addresses and phone numbers
> should be verified. I am saying that this dance around the issue of
> correct WHOIS data is a hilarious joke. You seem to have legal
> obligations to pretend otherwise, as a registrar, but I don't and I'm
> pointing out the nakedness of this particular emperor. There is
> absolutely no compulsion to provide correct info. I challenge you to
> prove me wrong.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Volker Greimann
> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> that is a totally different issue. Maybe such services need better
> regulation, but as long as the policy requirements are met, taking
> action solely based on the use of such services is impossible.
>
> Volker
>
>
>
> Am 14.02.2017 um 20:19 schrieb Greg Aaron:
>>
>> No, the RAA validation steps are trivially easy to get around.
>> You use the example of a fake email address. Criminals know not
>> to use fake email addresses, and they don’t need to because they
>> can get email addresses for free. One can sign up for free email
>> accounts anonymously. There are even underground services that
>> will generate freemail accounts in bulk. These services cater to
>> criminals such as spammers who need to register lots of domain
>> names.
>>
>> All best,
>>
>> --Greg
>>
>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Hollenbeck, Scott
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:57 PM
>> *To:* 'elsakoo at gmail.com <mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>'
>> <elsakoo at gmail.com> <mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* 'gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>' <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>>
>> *From:*allison nixon [mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:35 PM
>> *To:* Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck at verisign.com
>> <mailto:shollenbeck at verisign.com>>
>> *Cc:* vgreimann at key-systems.net
>> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>>
>> >>[SAH] Actually, there *are* requirements to provide valid data and for
>> registrars to perform validation processing:
>>
>> How do you expect toothless policy to work *on the Internet*?
>> Seriously?
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> Yes, seriously. Registrars who do not implement the policy are
>> subject to having their accreditation revoked. ICANN has, in
>> fact, revoked or suspended accreditations. Here are two examples:
>>
>> https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2007-03-16-en
>> <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2007-03-16-en>
>>
>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.pdf
>> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.pdf>
>>
>> worst that can happen when you put in fake whois data is that
>> your domain gets reported, you change "123 fake st" to "124 fake
>> st", and your registrar is satisfied because what more can they
>> possibly do. I know this because I went through this with an old
>> sinkhole domain. It's a total joke. Let's not pretend it's
>> anything more than that.
>>
>> Not true. A fake email address, for example, can be detected
>> easily when email sent to it (one of the registrar’s validation
>> requirements) gets bounced back. The worst that can happen is
>> that your domain gets put into some non-operational state
>> (“suspend the registration” per the RAA).
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
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>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
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>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
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> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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