[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
theo geurts
gtheo at xs4all.nl
Tue Feb 21 20:49:17 UTC 2017
Hi Greg,
Good comment.
I agree on the educational part. But lets not stop there, how cool would
it be if you could surf to the RDS, look up the domain and the select
copyright issues, and it would have the option to send a message to the
correct parties for copyright issues? And this is just one of the many
ideas based on Chris his use case, I just framed one solution here.
Again, and I am going to sound like a broken record here, we are not
even close to the solution phase, this is just an example on how you
can make the RDS work for you.
Best regards,
Theo
On 20-2-2017 23:39, Greg Shatan wrote:
> As someone who does a fair amount of infringement/takedown work,
> Chris's chain is pretty much like what I was going to type in before I
> saw his email, at least for the usual IP infringement matters. When
> it comes to phishing/spam/fraud domains and sites (often siteless
> domains being used to support a typosquatted email account), there's
> not much point in contacting the registrant (but there I will often
> contact LEA). The registrar is rarely, if ever, the first call or
> even the second (if the registrant is not, e.g., Donald Duck at 123
> Fake Street) (maybe for a siteless typosquat supporting phishing/fraud
> emails, and even there one needs to get to the email provider first
> (although I've had one case where the sender and the email provider
> were both buried behind various anonymizing methods, beyond my ability
> to penetrate)). A reasonably well-documented complaint is a must, of
> course. I think this is true of the colleagues I know (attorney and
> non-attorneys) and have worked with, as well.
>
> Unfortunately, there are plenty of non-specialists (attorneys and
> others) who will take care of these kinds of matters and they will go
> to the bright shiny object of the registrar with the abuse contact
> number. It looks easy, and why give away work you think you can do
> yourself. Training and education could come out of the IP or other
> relevant communities, or out of non-ICANN cooperative measures akin to
> the Healthy Domains Initiative. Of course, there's already a fair
> amount of education out there for anyone who wants to know how to
> pursue these matters appropriately, but the problem is there's no one
> place that all of us on both sides of the complainant/recipient dyad
> can point to and say "read this and do what it says before you send
> another [adjective] complaint to a [adjective] registrar." (Of
> course, there are plenty of nuances, exceptions and tricks of the
> trade, but the basics are pretty ... basic.)
>
> Greg Shatan
>
> *Greg Shatan
> *C: 917-816-6428
> S: gsshatan
> Phone-to-Skype: 646-845-9428
> gregshatanipc at gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, theo geurts <gtheo at xs4all.nl
> <mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>
> Sounds good Victoria, thanks!
>
> Theo
>
> On 20-2-2017 20:48, Victoria Sheckler wrote:
>> If / when this is set up. I'm happy to share with you how we
>> approach these issues at RIAA.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2017, at 11:43 AM, theo geurts <gtheo at xs4all.nl
>> <mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Lets shoot for Johannesburg.
>>>
>>> Theo
>>>
>>> On 20-2-2017 17:52, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe punt until we’re somewhere a bit more affordable?
>>>>
>>>> Copenhagen is going to be pricey J
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>>
>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>>
>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>>
>>>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>>>
>>>> http://blacknight.blog/
>>>>
>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>
>>>>
>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>
>>>>
>>>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>>>>
>>>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>>>> Park,Sleaty
>>>>
>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>>>
>>>> *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of John
>>>> Horton <john.horton at legitscript.com>
>>>> <mailto:john.horton at legitscript.com>
>>>> *Date: *Monday 20 February 2017 at 16:43
>>>> *To: *Chris Pelling <chris at netearth.net>
>>>> <mailto:chris at netearth.net>
>>>> *Cc: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>>>>
>>>> That /was/ a good event (the Dublin public safety/registrars
>>>> event).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Horton
>>>> President and CEO, LegitScript
>>>>
>>>> *Follow****Legit**Script*: LinkedIn
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter
>>>> <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | _Blog
>>>> <http://blog.legitscript.com>_ |Google+
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Chris Pelling
>>>> <chris at netearth.net <mailto:chris at netearth.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> HI Sam,
>>>>
>>>> Well, we have ICANN 58 coming up with a very tight schedule
>>>> looking at the draft. Something the registrars took on was
>>>> at the Dublin meeting, we booked a room above a pub, got
>>>> some drinks and munchies together, to get the "LEA/Public
>>>> safety" and registrars together - the night was a success.
>>>>
>>>> IF we could find somewhere, and get something sorted, would
>>>> there be any interest from the group, and if so, how many ?
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate this is a totally different situation and
>>>> requirement, but, its just a thought :)
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Sam Lanfranco" <sam at lanfranco.net
>>>> <mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>>
>>>> *To: *"chris" <chris at netearth.net
>>>> <mailto:chris at netearth.net>>, "Michele Neylon"
>>>> <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
>>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, 20 February, 2017 14:38:40
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>>
>>>> Your comment yanked my chain. I agree with you 100% when
>>>> you say “The problem is from the takedown / infringement
>>>> requests we see, 1, 2 and 3 [*/due diligence/*] are not
>>>> even thought of, *so part of this is education*.” Good
>>>> idea. How do we get there from here?
>>>>
>>>> As an economist I get pulled into very large project
>>>> proposals that are being clobbered together by well
>>>> meaning, well educated, people with their own personal PICs
>>>> (Public Interest Commitments) and who just want to do good.
>>>> In the “good works” area there are just as many crooks,
>>>> frauds, and sociopaths as can be found trolling in the DNS
>>>> system. However, over and over again it takes me less than
>>>> two hours of due diligence to uncover yet one more
>>>> “financier” who is a fraud, a crook, or simply trolling for
>>>> a big hit, and has the financial resources of a raccoon,
>>>> information the “good works” people have managed to overlook.
>>>>
>>>> An effective educational strategy is clearly needed here.
>>>> That may include a */DumbOne’s Guide to DNS Complaints/*
>>>> (avoided a trademark there) and maybe even generic
>>>> semi-standard forms for initiating complaints. To do that,
>>>> it would be useful to know the data on types of complaints
>>>> by type of complainant (e.g. how many and what types come
>>>> from lawyers, from individuals, etc.) as background for
>>>> better education here. Access to that "How to" guide
>>>> should at least be flagged in the domain name registration
>>>> process, the web hosting process and in queries about
>>>> complaining.
>>>>
>>>> Sam L.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/20/2017 8:32 AM, Chris Pelling wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'll weigh in here for a registrar who does not host
>>>> content that is not owned by him.
>>>>
>>>> My views and points on this are, for content based
>>>> issues, in priority order, top being the highest (and
>>>> first port of call) :
>>>>
>>>> 1. Registrant if available or any contact that is
>>>> identifiable on the website in question, if a
>>>> sub-domain, check the main domain by removing the
>>>> subdomain and adding www or leaving it off. (some
>>>> free hosting sites give subdomains away free, but the
>>>> main site is always only 1 click away)
>>>>
>>>> 2. Hosting company, look at the nameservers and this
>>>> sometimes gives the hosting company name, put the
>>>> nameserver name into google and more often than not,
>>>> the hosting company will pop up - contact them alerting
>>>> them to the fact that there is potentially infringing
>>>> information on a website that is hosted on servers
>>>> under their control. Good hosting companies are very
>>>> responsive.
>>>>
>>>> 3. If you cannot work out 2 above, whois the IP
>>>> address of the website (including any subdomain), this
>>>> will give you the IP address owner, they will surely
>>>> know whom that have given / rented / leased the IPs too
>>>> and this gives you 2 above. If you from doing this get
>>>> the registrar and they are not the hosting company,
>>>> this would lend to it be a forwarding service,
>>>>
>>>> 4. If they are a "reseller centric/wholesale"
>>>> registrar (eNom, Tucows. Realtime, NEO), then WHOIS
>>>> will often have a "Registration service provided by" or
>>>> "Reseller" in the whois output, this gives you the
>>>> registering party who took the order, if not at the
>>>> very least the registrar.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is from the takedown / infringement
>>>> requests we see, 1, 2 and 3 are not even thought of, so
>>>> part of this is education.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> < rest deleted >
>>>>
>>>>
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