[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Purpose in accordance with Registry Agreement section 2.18
John Bambenek
jcb at bambenekconsulting.com
Tue Jun 6 10:17:23 UTC 2017
See below.
--
John Bambenek
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:12, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>
> Where is the legal discussion? The below was a discussion of facts and how they could (or should) be interpreted...
>
> Volker
>
>
>> Am 06.06.2017 um 12:09 schrieb John Bambenek:
>> Can we PLEASE get an independent third-party lawyer to tell us what is ACTUALLY required? I love these rousing legal discussions as much as the next guy but they are getting is nowhere.
>>
>> --
>> John Bambenek
>>
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:27, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> You can't just add the privacy/proxy domains to the legal persons category because the service is a legal person. If anything, these services would usually be used by natural persons and thus those domains wwould belong with the natural persons group.
>>>
>>> Volker
>>>
>>>
>>>> Am 03.06.2017 um 01:44 schrieb Deacon, Alex:
>>>> Hi Stephanie.
>>>>
>>>> This seems clear to me. Of the 1600 WHOIS records randomly retrieved
>>>> • 59% (legal persons + p/p registrations) appear to not be natural persons.
>>>> • 33% appear to be natural persons.
>>>> • 8% could not be determined.
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>>> Date: Friday, June 2, 2017 at 4:34 PM
>>>> To: Dotzero <dotzero at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Purpose in accordance with Registry Agreement section 2.18
>>>>
>>>> Well, I guess I must be confused. Here are the results of the NORC study, please tell me how I should be reading these. P2, executive summary.
>>>> Stephanie
>>>> NORC
>>>> |
>>>> Project Summary Report
>>>> WHOIS Registrant I
>>>> dentification Study
>>>> | 2
>>>> Nevertheless, NORC has produced a coded set of data
>>>> that is useful for its intended purpose—an
>>>> exploratory study of registrant and domain user char
>>>> acteristics and the types of domain use activities.
>>>> With respect to answering
>>>> the issues posed by the GAC:
>>>>
>>>> Percentage of registrants that are natural versus legal persons
>>>> : Based on our analysis of the
>>>> WHOIS records retrieved from a random sample of
>>>> 1,600 domains from the top five gTLDs,
>>>>
>>>> 39 percent (± 2.4 percent
>>>> 1
>>>> ) appear to be registered by legal persons
>>>>
>>>> 33 percent (± 2.3 percent) appear to
>>>> be registered by natural persons
>>>>
>>>> 20 percent (± 2.0 percent) were registered using a privacy or proxy service.
>>>>
>>>> We were unable to classify the remaining 8 pe
>>>> rcent (± 1.4 percent) using data available
>>>> from WHOIS.
>>>> On 2017-06-02 16:15, Dotzero wrote:
>>>> The overwhelming majority of domains registered would be considered for commercial purposes. The fact that a small percentage of domains are registered by individuals for personal use should not be the determining factor as to what is appropriate for ICANN
>>>> to do. In fact, many of what people assert are personal domains have advertising on them and would therefor be considered by almost any jurisdiction to be engaged in a commercial activity. This includes many (most?) parked domains.
>>>> Under these circumstances, having disclosure requirement in registry/registrar agreements seems very appropriate and reasonable. Adding in the fact that "private registration" is an option reduces the scope of the issue even further.
>>>> This is starting to increasingly look like a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
>>>> Michael Hammer
>>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>> This clause has not been acceptable in the past, even before GDPR. I think it is worth pointing out that what is in the ICANN agreements has been repeatedly pointed out, notably by the Art 29 WG, but certainly
>>>> by others such as the IWGDPT, as violating DP law. These documents I believe are all in our repository. So please let us not assume that what has been happening is ok, even if we sign contract after contract with the same offending clauses in them. Consent
>>>> in most jurisdictions has to be some variant of "free, enlightened, and informed". Noone can be compelled to consent to a practice that is disproportionate or fails the necessity test...An ability to withdraw consent has to be available. I won't go on and
>>>> on but this clause obviously does not pass this test.
>>>> In my opinion, the longer ICANN tries to stymie the DPAs and ignore necessary changes in privacy policy, the greater the risk they run that a viral campaign will be launched among ordinary users, to appeal to the
>>>> Courts. DPAs try to effect change through dialogue. WHen dialogue fails, individuals have to take cases to Court. We don't want that.
>>>> Stephanie
>>>> On 2017-06-02 08:19, Volker Greimann wrote:
>>>> I was just reviewing the changes to the registry agreement again and I noticed a section that has relevance here as well and that had not been discussed here.
>>>> Apparently the definition of the purpose for personal data collection as far as ICANN is concerned is the job of the registry operators:
>>>> 2.18 Personal Data. Registry Operator shall (i) notify each ICANN-accredited registrar that is a party to the Registry-Registrar Agreement for the TLD of the purposes for which data about any identified or identifiable natural person (“Personal Data”) submitted
>>>> to Registry Operator by such registrar is collected and used under this Agreement or otherwise and the intended recipients (or categories of recipients) of such Personal Data, and (ii) require such registrar to obtain the consent of each registrant in the
>>>> TLD for such collection and use of Personal Data. Registry Operator shall take reasonable steps to protect Personal Data collected from such registrar from loss, misuse, unauthorized disclosure, alteration or destruction. Registry Operator shall not use or
>>>> authorize the use of Personal Data in a way that is incompatible with the notice provided to registrars.
>>>> This does have some relevance to our current discussion, so I thought I'd recklessly post it here!
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> --
>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>
>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>
>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>
>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>>
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>>>
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>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>>
>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>> www.keydrive.lu
>>>
>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>> - legal department -
>>>
>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>>
>>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>>
>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>>
>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>>
>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>> www.keydrive.lu
>>>
>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
>
>
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