[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] a suggestion for "purpose in detail"
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Thu Mar 23 15:37:32 UTC 2017
Hi Allison,
I do not know about other registrars, I just know what I see for myself.
And from that, it is impossible to generalize the relationship of domain
age and abuse. Some domains are aged remain dormant for months or even
years before their first abusive use while others are abused from the
second they are activated.
If there were a way to prevent registrations for abusive use at the time
of registration, most registrars I know would be very happy to know it.
V.
Am 23.03.2017 um 16:31 schrieb allison nixon:
> So we make it opt-in. The most abused registrars almost all give free
> whois privacy (somehow, magically), for at least the first year, and
> malware domains dont usually last a year, so it changes nothing.
>
> >>No deal. Sorry, but you do not get to claim to be the only source of
> expertise in your line of work.
>
> I'm sure you already know this about malicious domains, as you are a
> renowned expert in cybersecurity and researching cybercrime.
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Volker Greimann
> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
> Imagine the moaning if we did what he proposed? Registrars
> activating whois privacy for everyone would all but eliminate the
> ability of foreign law enforcement and those in the business of
> fighting cybercrime as a non-authorized entity. Whois as it is
> today would cease to exist from one day to the next.
>
> I somehow feel that this is not what you really want. So let's try
> to find a solution that would maintain the essential usability of
> whois and at the same time remains within the confines of legal
> requirements. If that is an unreasonable suggestion, you can call
> me unreasonable.
>
>
>
> Am 23.03.2017 um 15:55 schrieb allison nixon:
>> The simultaneous moaning over a small whois privacy fee, with the
>> total disregard and ignorance over current whois use cases, and
>> the desire to destroy a company over it(oops, I mean "step on
>> toes"), and impose various other burdens that must be borne by
>> "someone else", because the registrars can't possibly spend a
>> dime... bother me quite a bit more. John's tone is more than
>> justified considering the unreasonable attitudes prevalent here.
>>
>> If yall are going to claim that all current use cases are not
>> only illegal but invalid, you won't get much sympathy over
>> raising your fees a dollar to make them "legal" again.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Ayden Férdeline
>> <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>>
>> (Off-list)
>>
>> Who is John Bambenek? His tone (and the lack of substance to
>> all of his comments) really bothers me.
>>
>> - Ayden
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 2:24 pm, John Bambenek via
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>> Yes someone will have to pay for it.
>>>
>>> You will. And I'll be the one that makes that happen.
>>>
>>> Deal with it.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 09:18, Volker Greimann
>>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As Robert Heinlein already correctly wrote half a century ago:
>>>>
>>>> "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"
>>>>
>>>> Someone will have to pay for it. Free whois just means
>>>> either the community or the customer pays for it some way
>>>> or another.
>>>>
>>>> So why not rather find a legally compliant solution that
>>>> would fit the requirements?
>>>>
>>>> Volker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 23.03.2017 um 15:11 schrieb John Bambenek:
>>>>> Soon all of you will be forced to offer whois privacy for
>>>>> free.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll leave it to you to figure out the economics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 09:07, Volker Greimann
>>>>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>>>> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Allison,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Several registrars already offer free whois privacy.
>>>>>>> They made it work, so you should keep up!
>>>>>> Most such registrars still charge for the same service,
>>>>>> it is just that the cost is hidden in their more
>>>>>> expensive registration fees. Or they do not handle
>>>>>> complaints appropriately. Or, or, or...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ultimately, someone is going to pay for the service, and
>>>>>> it is not the registrar offering it for "free".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TANSTAAFL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe dumb bad actors. Savvy bad actors just
>>>>>>> populate whois with data of unknowing third parties,
>>>>>>> thereby rendering any verification and validation
>>>>>>> instruments useless and inconveniencing the affected
>>>>>>> data subjects as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad you know so much about how bad actors abuse
>>>>>>> whois. But from my own limited experiences- I don't see
>>>>>>> that many input validation mechanisms on bad domains
>>>>>>> because there are a lot of "555-5555" phone numbers out
>>>>>>> there and other arbitrary strings.
>>>>>> I see what comes over my desk. Most domains we find
>>>>>> involved in whois have perfectly formed and verifiable
>>>>>> whois. The data just does not match the person who
>>>>>> registered it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some points/thoughts :
>>>>>>> Cost of providing the service (this includes cost of
>>>>>>> the office, personnel to run it - unless you are
>>>>>>> going to offer this free "John B" to all ICANN
>>>>>>> registrars ?)
>>>>>>> The underlying data may not even be allowed to be
>>>>>>> provided to the whois privacy service, unless it is
>>>>>>> in the local jurisdiction of the registrant.
>>>>>>> Harvesting and storage of whois data to be
>>>>>>> re-wrapped and sold is illegal and many registrars
>>>>>>> state this on the terms and conditions.
>>>>>>> Gated access has to be properly defined for each
>>>>>>> gate/right of access, an example, a registrar would
>>>>>>> normally only need access to external whois for the
>>>>>>> purpose of transferring a domain name - they have no
>>>>>>> other reason to need access to this data.
>>>>>>> (registration, is totally different as it doesnt
>>>>>>> need access to the "whois") As above, storage of
>>>>>>> whois data is illegal unless it was for a lawful
>>>>>>> purpose and the only one I can think of is
>>>>>>> transfers. ICANN require registrars to keep this
>>>>>>> info for upto 2 or 7 years (cant remember which).
>>>>>>> This will step on some registrars toes as well as
>>>>>>> John H's toes whi have a business model around the
>>>>>>> supply of whois data for commercial gain (namely
>>>>>>> charging for it).
>>>>>>> I am sorry to say that none of what the WG will do
>>>>>>> or complete will stop bad actors, they are smart,
>>>>>>> they are not dumb (well some of them are:) )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so who decided that these normal uses of whois are
>>>>>>> suddenly illegal? I hereby declare my allegiance to the
>>>>>>> dark side. Down with the government.
>>>>>> Depends on the terms you accept when you make the whois
>>>>>> inquiry. You may be violating the terms of the registrar
>>>>>> or registry providing the whois service.
>>>>>> Please note that ICANN mandates that registrars have an
>>>>>> access agreement in place for any bulk request of whois
>>>>>> data, most registrar apply the same rules for use of
>>>>>> their whois data in general.
>>>>>> And yes, registrars are free to contractually limit the
>>>>>> uses the data they provide can be put to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Chris Pelling
>>>>>>> <chris at netearth.net <mailto:chris at netearth.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typo materialistic should have been minimalistic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From: *"Chris Pelling" <chris at netearth.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:chris at netearth.net>>
>>>>>>> *To: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, 23 March, 2017 12:06:01
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] a suggestion for
>>>>>>> "purpose in detail"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope everyone got home safe that attended ICANN58 :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having just sat through and played catch up on this
>>>>>>> thread, a few things stand out to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On one side you have a stakeholder person (maybe
>>>>>>> group) advocating they will pushing for "free whois
>>>>>>> protection" provided by registrar which simply won't
>>>>>>> happen - for a number of reasons (see below),
>>>>>>> whereas the fundamental issue is what will be
>>>>>>> collected and who will be able to see it. Maybe
>>>>>>> this could be worked on from a materialistic point
>>>>>>> of view, really what does WHOIS/RDS need to show as
>>>>>>> its most basic data, I remember a discussion some
>>>>>>> months ago where Michele mentioned about simply
>>>>>>> domain name, dates of registration, expiry and DNS
>>>>>>> servers. (registrar name and abuse contact details
>>>>>>> are a given to be shown)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The storage of such data depending on "whom" the
>>>>>>> registrant and/or other contacts are located, and
>>>>>>> where it is being seen from (different jurisdiction
>>>>>>> for example) will come out further down the line in
>>>>>>> our deliberations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some points/thoughts :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Cost of providing the service (this includes
>>>>>>> cost of the office, personnel to run it - unless
>>>>>>> you are going to offer this free "John B" to all
>>>>>>> ICANN registrars ?)
>>>>>>> * The underlying data may not even be allowed to
>>>>>>> be provided to the whois privacy service, unless
>>>>>>> it is in the local jurisdiction of the registrant.
>>>>>>> * Harvesting and storage of whois data to be
>>>>>>> re-wrapped and sold is illegal and many
>>>>>>> registrars state this on the terms and conditions.
>>>>>>> * Gated access has to be properly defined for each
>>>>>>> gate/right of access, an example, a registrar
>>>>>>> would normally only need access to external
>>>>>>> whois for the purpose of transferring a domain
>>>>>>> name - they have no other reason to need access
>>>>>>> to this data. (registration, is totally
>>>>>>> different as it doesnt need access to the
>>>>>>> "whois") As above, storage of whois data is
>>>>>>> illegal unless it was for a lawful purpose and
>>>>>>> the only one I can think of is transfers. ICANN
>>>>>>> require registrars to keep this info for upto 2
>>>>>>> or 7 years (cant remember which). This will
>>>>>>> step on some registrars toes as well as John H's
>>>>>>> toes whi have a business model around the supply
>>>>>>> of whois data for commercial gain (namely
>>>>>>> charging for it).
>>>>>>> * I am sorry to say that none of what the WG will
>>>>>>> do or complete will stop bad actors, they are
>>>>>>> smart, they are not dumb (well some of them are:) )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for John H and clowns, I would gladly offer my
>>>>>>> services to help you get over that :) My
>>>>>>> issue/phobia is the dark, sadly for me that is a
>>>>>>> reality I won't be able to overcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From: *"John Horton" <john.horton at legitscript.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:john.horton at legitscript.com>>
>>>>>>> *To: *"nathalie coupet" <nathaliecoupet at yahoo.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:nathaliecoupet at yahoo.com>>
>>>>>>> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, 22 March, 2017 16:33:22
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] a suggestion for
>>>>>>> "purpose in detail"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Nathalie. I'm sure many share your frustration!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that's a constructive question, and I'll
>>>>>>> jump in. My biggest fear is that in the monitoring
>>>>>>> that companies like mine do for banks, payment
>>>>>>> providers, e-commerce companies, etc. that helps
>>>>>>> determine whether a merchant is who they say they
>>>>>>> are, and whether they are engaged in other bad
>>>>>>> activity (i.e., laundering money) will be unable to
>>>>>>> obtain access to the Whois records we need in order
>>>>>>> to preserve the integrity of the payments system,
>>>>>>> protect payment providers from risk, and
>>>>>>> derivatively protect consumers. In other words, my
>>>>>>> fear is that we'll lose access to Whois records,
>>>>>>> which we need for that purpose.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, to be honest, that's not true -- my
>>>>>>> biggest fear (to answer your question directly) is
>>>>>>> of clowns, and every time I travel, I ask the hotel
>>>>>>> to please check for clowns in my closet before I
>>>>>>> enter the room. But I assume you didn't really want
>>>>>>> to know my biggest fear -- you just want to know my
>>>>>>> biggest fear in relation to Whois policy, correct?
>>>>>>> Two different things, but yeah -- if a clown jumped
>>>>>>> out of my hotel closet, that would probably be the
>>>>>>> realization of my biggest fear. That's probably
>>>>>>> nothing that this working group can do much about,
>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Horton
>>>>>>> President and CEO, LegitScript
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *FollowLegitScript*: LinkedIn
>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> |
>>>>>>> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> |
>>>>>>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | Blog
>>>>>>> <http://blog.legitscript.com> | Google+
>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 9:24 AM, nathalie coupet via
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 I must say I'm a bit disillusioned by the
>>>>>>> entire process. This PDP should look like a
>>>>>>> negotiating table, instead it is more like a War
>>>>>>> of Trenches.
>>>>>>> If stakeholders are not motivated to negotiate,
>>>>>>> there is no sense of urgency and stakes for
>>>>>>> change are so low, then I wonder what we are
>>>>>>> doing here in the first place.
>>>>>>> Could every stakeholder state what their biggest
>>>>>>> fear is, and we could try to avoid their
>>>>>>> realization?
>>>>>>> Or maybe, in last resort, we should just vote
>>>>>>> for the best proposal and go home?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nathalie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On Mar 22, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>>> <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:19:56AM -0500,
>>>>>>> John Bambenek wrote:
>>>>>>> >> Yes there is a difference which is why I am
>>>>>>> using both words. And that's why I am suggesting
>>>>>>> we talking about optional and maskable fields
>>>>>>> right up front as part of the requirements
>>>>>>> discussion not some ancillary discussion that
>>>>>>> happens later after all the decisions are
>>>>>>> already made.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I thought the WG had already decided on a
>>>>>>> different (multi-pass)
>>>>>>> > strategy, in which data collection itself was
>>>>>>> treated first with the
>>>>>>> > principle that, if there were some (legitmate,
>>>>>>> hand-wave hand-wave)
>>>>>>> > purpose then collection would be considered.
>>>>>>> Later, the further
>>>>>>> > question of access to such collected items
>>>>>>> would be taken up.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I don't really care which way we do this, but
>>>>>>> it seems to me that we
>>>>>>> > need to stop arguing about the way by which
>>>>>>> we'll reach a result and
>>>>>>> > start actually doing work in the direction of
>>>>>>> some result. The
>>>>>>> > meta-discussions about process are wearing out
>>>>>>> contributors (well, at
>>>>>>> > least one contributor!) and creating the
>>>>>>> condition in which those who
>>>>>>> > want no changes at all will get their way by
>>>>>>> exhaustion. If ICANN is
>>>>>>> > incapable of coming to terms with the
>>>>>>> deficiencies of whois (the
>>>>>>> > protocol) after all this time, it will be
>>>>>>> revealed to be ridiculous.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Best regards,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > A
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>>> > ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>>>>>>> > ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>> > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> > gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> _________________________________
>>>>>>> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
>>>>>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>> - legal department -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
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>>>>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>> --
>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>
>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
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>>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - legal department -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE
>> burning.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>
> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>
> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net> /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>
> --
> _________________________________ Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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