[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] another document that might be of interest

Wed Oct 25 16:02:17 UTC 2017

Volker,

I think the point that Carlton was trying to make (sorry if I get that wrong Carlton!) and that I definitely am making this point, is that if there is “no whois” then DNS will definitely end up being badly broken.  Not because of any technical resolution issues as you correctly point out, but rather, network operators protecting themselves and their clients from risk.  Publishing will continue on unaffected (mostly - see nameserver example below) but the resolution side would be much different.  In such a world, I would posit that getting a newly registered to resolve within most large corporate networks and even many major ISPs would be very unlikely.  Having a new domain usable for large-scale acceptance in e-mail would likely find a similar or even worse fate.  Certain TLDs would end up in similar straits, where the poor reputation of neighbors in that zone and lack of context to evaluate a new domain registration would lead to TLDs with poor reputation to be entirely blocked by people acting on behalf of the people and processes using their networks.  If people set-up new name servers for domains, these may be shunned too, which could affect the ability to publish DNS records for other domains as well.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head as to why the “whois goes completely dark” scenario would seriously break things and threaten SSR.

Of course no one is advocating for that here I believe (hope) as we have made at least some progress on consensus towards the need and legitimacy for various purposes of an RDS.  We are working on how that looks and works, not whether it exists at all in the future.  Right?

Cheers,

Rod

> On Oct 25, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Carlton,
> 
> I do not think DNS resolution would be affected by the removal of whois in its entirety as DNS continues to function with or without whois.
> Volker
> 
> Am 25.10.2017 um 16:34 schrieb Carlton Samuels:
>> In regard of contactability Volker I tend to agree with you. However, I would also consider contactability within the larger scope; DNS resolution. When any action undermines that objective, it speaks to an even bigger scope, the security, stability and trustworthiness of the DNS is undermined. Sensible and balanced policy prescriptives that enable those objectives are in the best interest of all of us.
>> 
>> -Carlton
>> 
>> 
>> ==============================
>> Carlton A Samuels
>> Mobile: 876-818-1799
>> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround
>> =============================
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 3:57 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> no one is saying that it should be eliminated unless I missed it. The focus is rather on reforming it to provide the essential functions in a way that does not impact the basic rights of registrants and others. Limiting full access to LEAs is one such potential solution, rather simple to implement but with obvious drawbacks to parties that have so far relied on full access. Other methods may be better. Lets discuss them.
>> 
>> Contactability can be achieved by many means that do not require publication of private details. And while contactibility is desireable, some participants in the internet may simply not want to be contactible. And that is reasonable too, as long as there is no problem (as contactability is strictly speaking only a necessity for resolving problems).
>> 
>> When you look at number of instances where someone really needed to contact a domain owner for infrastructural reasons, how does that number compare with the total number of registrations? Is it a percentile, a thousandth, or even less than that?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 24.10.2017 um 21:46 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 03:13:15PM -0400, Greg Shatan wrote:
>> 
>> This is a false dichotomy for several reasons.
>> [and a bunch of other stuff with which I largely agree].  On top of
>> what Greg says, I think it a strange idea that registrants' interests
>> are best served by eliminating a tool to increase the reliability and
>> utility of domain name registrations.  Apart from (IMO parasitic)
>> domain name speculators, the whole point of registering a domain name
>> is to function on the Internet.  As I have now said too often to
>> count, the Internet is partly novel becase it offers distributed
>> operation and management among operators with no necessary prior
>> contractual relationship, or even one that is available transitively
>> through some other contract.  In order to get that kind of operation,
>> certain tools are a _required_ feature.  One of them is that, if you're
>> going to operate any infrastructure (and domain names are Internet
>> infrastructure), certain details about how to reach you are just going
>> to be required.
>> 
>> We can certainly debate the best way to make that happen, and how much
>> of it is necessary.  But I don't think it is ever going to be
>> completely optional, and I think anyone who thinks it can be
>> completely optional or for that matter not in registrants' interests
>> needs to think a little harder about the operational and protocol
>> realities of the Internet as it exists now.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> A
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>> 
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>> 
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>> 
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>> 
>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
>> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
>> 
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>> 
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>> 
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/>
>> 
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>> 
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>> 
>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
>> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
>> 
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>> 
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>> 
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/>
>> 
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
> 
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> 
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
> 
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> 
> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
> 
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
> 
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
> 
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/>
> 
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
> 
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> 
> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
> 
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
> 
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
> 
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/>
> 
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/attachments/20171025/045ef9de/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 235 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/attachments/20171025/045ef9de/signature-0001.asc>