[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP
Michele Neylon - Blacknight
michele at blacknight.com
Wed Feb 21 13:34:31 UTC 2018
John
It’s an EU directive, so while it was implemented in all member states there are differences. That’s why emails from Volker contain more information in the footer than ones you get from me ☺
Regards
Michele
--
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From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Reply-To: John Horton <john.horton at legitscript.com>
Date: Tuesday 20 February 2018 at 18:52
To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP
Uh...that's not a universal requirement. I know a lot of EU (some? a lot? not sure) of EU countries have that for commercial websites, and Japan does too (something we actually monitor for) but it's not like that's a requirement in the majority of countries. It's a minority approach, actually.
John Horton
President and CEO, LegitScript
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ]
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On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
We are also thinking about what is right for registrants and their right to data privacy that have been violated for too long.
Volker
If LEAs and governments want publicly accessible whois databases, they should legislate it, just like they have legislated imprints on websites, land registries, company registers, car registration registries and many more.
But they have not and seem to be disinclined to do so. That in and of itself should tell you something.
Why do they legislate what has to be on a website but not what has to be in whois? Take a guess!
Volker
On 16. Feb 2018, at 20:11, John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
And herein lies the exact problem: too many people on this group are thinking about what's right for registrars and registries, not internet users as a whole. (Which, obviously, is more than just registrants.)
ICANN policy isn't supposed to serve the interests of registrars. It's supposed to serve the broader public interest.
Benny, sorry -- I don't understand your email. :)
John Horton
President and CEO, LegitScript
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ]
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On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 11:01 AM, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
Such a distinction sounds complex for a registrar to make, and even more burdensome for a registrar to implement. Who could afford to do this? I would also worry that such costs would be passed on to domain name registrants.
— Ayden
-------- Original Message --------
On 16 February 2018 7:52 PM, John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
I think quite a bit in this WG and certainly in the prior privacy/proxy PDP, and absolutely what we're seeing with GoDaddy. To make sure I'm being clear about what I mean, GoDaddy isn't only redacting Whois information (via Port 43) where it's an EU natural citizen or natural resident. The information is being redacted for....everyone. All registrants. There's simply no justification for that.
I predict you'd see (I'm not speaking for anyone here, just me) a real willingness on the security and compliance community's part to compromise and support a system where, IF a registrant is an EU natural person (yes, I know we need to define it accurately -- citizen, resident, we can get granular later) then...hey, let's set up a system in involving redaction of some fields, access to those fields in legitimate cases, etc. I want to support registrars' compliance with the GDPR. But we're seeing the registrar community say: We want to apply this globally. To all domain name registrations. Doesn't matter if the registrant is the intended beneficiary of the new law, or in scope, or not. We're going to just change global policy.
I think that viewpoint has been pretty repeatedly represented in this working group, but I'd love to hear from registrars that would support a more targeted solution where only the intended beneficiaries of the GDPR (that is, in-scope registrants) are covered under the policy.
John Horton
President and CEO, LegitScript
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ]
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On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:44 AM, benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se> <benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>> wrote:
Please refer to where registrars have been unwilling to explore this option?
--
Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
Benny Samuelsen
Registry Manager - Domainexpert
Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
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Phone: +46.42197000<tel:%2B46.42197000>
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> On 16 Feb 2018, at 19:38, John Horton via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>
> Just imagine how much of all of this could be avoided if registrars were willing to agree to a commercial/individual distinction.
>
> John Horton
> President and CEO, LegitScript
>
>
> Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Blog | Newsletter
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:33 AM, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
> GDPR taken to its logical extreme very well could require us to abandon IP reputation and to emptying our firewalls. I mean, no consumer authorized me to process their IP just by attacking me, right?
>
> Privacy absolutism is not the answer unless you basically want to mandate the internet backbone be converted to tor.
>
> --
> John Bambenek
>
> On Feb 16, 2018, at 06:09, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
>> It’s an interesting read, but it has several flaws.
>>
>> It refers to registrars solely and ignores registries.
>>
>> It also makes it sound like issues around whois are “new”, which we all know isn’t true.
>>
>> The comments about IP addresses make it sound like it’s a theoretical concern, yet there is case law eg:
>>
>> https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/european-court-of-justice-rules-ip-addresses-are-personal-data-1.2835704
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>
>> Blacknight Solutions
>>
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>
>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>
>> http://blacknight.blog/
>>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>
>>
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
>>
>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>>
>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Dotzero <dotzero at gmail.com<mailto:dotzero at gmail.com>>
>> Date: Friday 16 February 2018 at 00:07
>> To: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>> Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Krebs On Security article RE whois and GDRP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/02/new-eu-privacy-law-may-weaken-security/
>>
>> Michael Hammer
>>
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